18-04-2004 10:19									#1
	Poll: War with Belivers/Build CDF Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Heres a Poll for 2 ideas I wanted to throw out their for everyone to consider.

First off we will be able infiltrate the Belivers this turn with out Probe Foil. That along with out growing supply of Missle Chopers and Drop Units and the reduced imediate threat from Hive and Drone Forces opens up the possibliity of a quick Chop and Drop War with the Belivers. I belive we could be in position for opening attacks in only 2-3 turns.

The potential Benifits are also greatly incressed now that we have adopted a "Nerve Staple them all into submision and work them to death" stance with our own population. Miriams Populus would be just as effecient as our own once assimilated, I estimate nearly 150-200 extra Credits a turn if we fully concour them. We also gain Population with which we can opose any Hive or Drone Planetary Govenorship moves. And Ofcorse now that PEACE is gone we need a new faction to abuse. Also this war would be completly justified as She Vendetaed us.


The other topic up for discussion is the CDF. We resently obtained the ability to build this project when we took Doc Loyalty from the Hive and its Cost is well within our now fattened Budget. I propose we use 3 Crawlers in the vasinity of Bolean Bay, upgrade to MK9 and rush the project. We could have it in 2-3 turns if we start planning now (in time wor the Beliver war). Admitedly we gain very little defence vs the Hive/Drone Air attacks we have been under lately. But it would be very helpfull if they deside to Drop Missle Rovers onto Trantor and make a land based attack. They already have such rovers and they might turn to them in combination with long range Chopper attacks to take bases that otherwise seem safe. Lastly by doing it for ourselves we deny the Drones the oportunity to take this Project and can incresse our Alpha Centauri score and loss the game with that much more dignity.

	18-04-2004 11:44									#2
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for CDF. Be warned though that a Hive transport is on the loose. Haven't checked how many and what Hive land units are missing.

I can agree with an attack on Believers if the infiltration action is successfull. Don't like to do so when no info at all is available about them.

	18-04-2004 16:27									#3
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infiltration successful - attack Believers (about ten syn garrisons and 35 impact units)

	18-04-2004 17:07									#4
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* GeoModder whisles. That is quite something...

	18-04-2004 17:08									#5
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Our Choppers should be able to slice up their unarmored Impact Units as they move between Bases and we can they just drop in some cheap scout units.

Inviltrating them is no big deal, its always successful regardless of Probe rating, the unit surviving though is not guaranteed. Also notice that Miriam is not running ANY social enginering choices other then Planned so here Probe rating is not as high as it could be.

Last edited by Impaler[WrG] on 18-04-2004 at 19:39

	20-04-2004 03:11									#6
	Got spare money?

More bases = more production of troops to bash teh Hive.

So let's go for it.

And the CDF is a PEACH, we'd be dumb not to.

-Jam

	20-04-2004 05:04									#7
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Yes and Yes

	20-04-2004 12:56									#8
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Yes and Yes.

	20-04-2004 21:38									#9
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W00t We're going to see the Believers BURN

	20-04-2004 23:41									#10
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And she still has 16 colony pods running around (at one time she did have 20, but lost 4) - she never did build trannies and move them off her continent - nor even add them to existing bases!!

Good pop boost there if they can be subverted

And just look at Blessed Savior - what a catch that would be to mind-control!!

	21-04-2004 01:14									#11
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Isn`t this helping us, Googlie? I do not object but isn`t that against the rules?

	21-04-2004 02:17									#12
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Possibly he's just encouraging us to attack Miriam to see how we will do against his beloved AI.
IIRC colony pods are very expensive to mind control (eg remember the PEACE CP we captured: 171 credits ) , so it would most likely not be lucrative at all to try and mind control them.

Anyway, I voted against conquering Miriam and building the CDF. Why? IMHO if we have troops we should save them to use against the Hive-Drones. And for the CDF: remind me one occassion we've had to suffer an attack from a land unit. It's air units that are the problem.

	21-04-2004 03:28									#13
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor Isn`t this helping us, Googlie? I do not object but isn`t that against the rules?

Naw - I don't think so. everyone else either has infiltration on Miriam, or access to it, and these items have been discussed in their forums. In fact I think a couple of months ago it appeared in the general forums after a faction (PEACE maybe) had infiltrated and I labeled it a new AI tactic - the Colony Pod rush - they just clutter up the roads so that your attackers can't get through to their bases

(And actually had some precedents in history with Napoleon'a army in Russia and also the fleeing Polish civilians in WWII)

	21-04-2004 04:09									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Anyway, I voted against conquering Miriam and building the CDF. Why? IMHO if we have troops we should save them to use against the Hive-Drones. And for the CDF: remind me one occassion we've had to suffer an attack from a land unit. It's air units that are the problem.

ATM Hive/Drones can only drop units far off our bases, and continue over terrain. So that means a land attack.

I do expect that one of them founds a base were Caboolture was, and restarts dropping. Therefore it is best IMO to built Aerospace Complexes in Pi Square, Zetaris and And/Or Gate.

	21-04-2004 20:29									#15
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Agree with building thouse AiroSpace Complexes and that they should take priority over the CDF, with out current income though I think we can have both done in 2-3 turns and be well into concouring the Belivers too.

	21-04-2004 23:29									#16
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AS Complexes and AAA troops will stall any chop-and-drop invasion in my experience

-Jam

	22-04-2004 01:51									#17
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Yes, but we're not researching anymore, so AAA is out of range.
How about starting to research again after those AC's and CDF is finished?

	22-04-2004 11:27									#18
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Advanced Military Algoriths is a ways off, I think our best bet might be to steal the nessary Pre-Requsites from the Drones who are going to have Optical Computers soon (unlees they froze research efforts durring the war which frankly would make sense). Likewise taking Planetary Economics from the Hive would be another good idea.

	22-04-2004 17:04									#19
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So have we seen ANY downside to nervestapling everyone yet?

	22-04-2004 17:44									#20
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Yes, members don't log in so offen...

	22-04-2004 17:50									#21
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And when they do they don't say much.

	23-04-2004 01:22									#22
	Got spare money?

True.

-Jam

	25-04-2004 03:19									#23
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Ok, turn has arrived. in my MAF orders is an initial battle plan against the Believers included for this turn (MY 2164).

Do members disagree for starting with it already? I estimate at least 2 bases can be taken this turn, probably more will seem possible when we receive map info from the Believers after we take their first base.

	25-04-2004 03:35									#24
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Take as many as possible, I don't think they can retake much, but try to secure. And I think this poll speaks for itself. 8-1 for starting it, 7-2 for an all out war.