20-04-2004 13:58									#1
	Microsoft to buy Bioware? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: According to the somewhat obscure Polygon Magazine, Microsoft and BioWare are set to announce a holy union at May's E3. The rumor makes some sense, as Microsoft is publishing BioWare's next console title, Jade Empire. However, BioWare previously asserted they only planned to make games for Xbox and PC, so it's curious why Microsoft would feel compelled to spend a good chunk of money to purchase a developer already in its corner. Microsoft does not comment on rumors or speculation, so could not deny nor confirm whether BioWare would indeed become part of the Microsoft family. BioWare, however, did comment on the rumors, offering: "BioWare's upcoming Xbox action-RPG, Jade Empire, is based on an entirely new BioWare intellectual property and slated for a holiday 2004 release. Microsoft is the publisher for Jade Empire. Microsoft is a certainly a valued business partner with whom BioWare enjoys a very positive and cooperative relationship." That cryptic response may mean there is indeed something in the works. If this rumor is true, Microsoft increases its healthy list of first-party development companies, but it really won't mean much of a change for gamers, who get Jade Empire and a likely Neverwinter Nights Xbox title in the near future. We'll have more on this story if it develops beyond the rumor stages.

Interesting news... perhaps Microsoft can be convinced to purchase Black Isle and just become the new Interplay for RPGs.

	20-04-2004 14:20									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hmm, I'll wait for a bit before believing this.

	20-04-2004 14:31									#3
	Put an end to popups!

quote: "BioWare's upcoming Xbox action-RPG, Jade Empire, is based on an entirely new BioWare intellectual property and slated for a holiday 2004 release. Microsoft is the publisher for Jade Empire. Microsoft is a certainly a valued business partner with whom BioWare enjoys a very positive and cooperative relationship."

That cryptic response was probably just cut and pasted from one of BioWare's latest press releases. Even if it were in context, it wouldn't offer much information.

	20-04-2004 15:49									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

If it's true the: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Micro$oft has the bad habit of cancelling games if the development of those games cost too much, or if it does not reach the micro$oft standards. Mythica only just recently was cancelled like this, and there was not really a reason for it, because the entire gaming community and the press called it a very promising game.

KILL M$

	20-04-2004 16:12									#5
	Put an end to popups!

quote: perhaps Microsoft can be convinced to purchase Black Isle and just become the new Interplay for RPGs.

Which will all be published first on the Xbox with a PC port in the works a year later. These "RPGs" will also probably be more like BG Dark Alliance.

At this rate the world will have three game companies: Electronic Arts, Microsoft and Activision.

	20-04-2004 18:10									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeucch

	20-04-2004 19:53									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Penny Arcade has a source who says no.

quote: I'm hearing a huge "no" from people internal to the company. But then I'm like, well, if he's in on it...

	20-04-2004 20:11									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hurrah! More merging of developers into mega-conglomerates! With any luck, soon we won't have any original games (assuming any ever get published, period, with all the inevitable corporate delays...)

	20-04-2004 20:14									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Which will all be published first on the Xbox with a PC port in the works a year later. These "RPGs" will also probably be more like BG Dark Alliance. At this rate the world will have three game companies: Electronic Arts, Microsoft and Activision.

What, not Atari?

	20-04-2004 20:29									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Hurrah! More merging of developers into mega-conglomerates! With any luck, soon we won't have any original games (assuming any ever get published, period, with all the inevitable corporate delays...)

There'll always be the 'underdogs' like Paradox and Illwinter who do it for the love of the games, not for the love of the money.

... I hope.

	20-04-2004 23:08									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

oh please god no!

	20-04-2004 23:47									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: What, not Atari?

Point taken. And Vivendi. But they are all whores of Babylon, the lot of 'em.

	21-04-2004 11:30									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If Atari survived until now, then it must mean that nothing can assimilate them anyway

PS: Hello Kass and Dissident

	21-04-2004 11:33									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd There'll always be the 'underdogs' like Paradox and Illwinter who do it for the love of the games, not for the love of the money. ... I hope.

But the games Paradox and Illwinter make are just contrived, lame, and dull as what you get out of the megacorps -- just without the polish and marketing.

Honestly, I think it's a psychological thing for the people who are fans of their games. Boggles my mind.

	21-04-2004 12:29									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

Asher is just jealous cause I, the glorious Russian empire, invaded Canada in Victoria.

	21-04-2004 16:14									#16
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Asher But the games Paradox and Illwinter make are just contrived, lame, and dull as what you get out of the megacorps -- just without the polish and marketing. Honestly, I think it's a psychological thing for the people who are fans of their games. Boggles my mind.

	21-04-2004 16:36									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Don't laugh, you'll only encorage the trolls.

-Jam

	21-04-2004 22:28									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Which will all be published first on the Xbox with a PC port in the works a year later. These "RPGs" will also probably be more like BG Dark Alliance.

KOTOR was published first on the XBox and was a very good RPG. Microsoft's own Fable looks to be an amazingly deep RPG as well.

quote: But the games Paradox and Illwinter make are just contrived, lame, and dull as what you get out of the megacorps -- just without the polish and marketing.

	21-04-2004 22:44									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

Imran, are you seriously going to tell me that you think some of most original games made since the 90s are "lame, contrived, and dull"? Let's not even mention that Europa Universalis is widely considered to be one of the all-time best strategy games in most circles.


And don't tell me that the 'megacorps' always make polished games. Most games are released in just as dire a condition as Paradox games are, only they don't recieve the same sort of devotion through patches.

	22-04-2004 05:49									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Red herrings abound!

	22-04-2004 05:58									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher Red herrings abound!

I don't think you know what that means.

	22-04-2004 08:37									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

1) No one said megacorps always make polished games
2) Of course the most original games aren't "lame, contrived, and dull" -- it just so happens that small indy studios aren't any better at this than megacorps.

In fact, I'm a big strategy game fan, and I think Europa Universalis is average at best.

And SuperPower is utter crap, though indy-idiots try to tell me otherwise.

Let's face it -- when you've got a crap budget with developers who couldn't cut it in the big leagues, you're rarely going to get a decent game.

People like you are the Snapcase of the gaming world. Unless it's underground or indy, it's mainstream crap and oh we can't have that...

	22-04-2004 11:21									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Which will all be published first on the Xbox with a PC port in the works a year later. These "RPGs" will also probably be more like BG Dark Alliance. KOTOR was published first on the XBox and was a very good RPG. Microsoft's own Fable looks to be an amazingly deep RPG as well. quote: But the games Paradox and Illwinter make are just contrived, lame, and dull as what you get out of the megacorps -- just without the polish and marketing.

KOTOR was a pretty damn good RPG. I just wished it had been a little more "deep". They simplified a lot of the NWN combat and character system.

	22-04-2004 13:51									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If MS buy Black Isle and Atari then does that mean that we can get some more BG games?

	22-04-2004 15:18									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dissident KOTOR was a pretty damn good RPG. I just wished it had been a little more "deep". They simplified a lot of the NWN combat and character system.

I thought KOTOR had a more immersive plot than the NWN expansion I have played. Granted KOTOR would have benefitted from some of the more complex NWN rules, but the main thing I would have liked was to see the rolls. Often in KOTOR it was tricky for a new RPGer to work out what was going on under the hood.

	22-04-2004 15:38									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Wasn't that the point of it though? It was/is an extremely playable game, but not exceptionally heavy in terms of RPG rules, so that both the Jamskis of this world, and RPG n00bs could both enjoy it. Hopefully it will have tempted some of these n00bs to find out more about the systems and some other, more hard-core RPG games out there.

	22-04-2004 15:40									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

quote: Which will all be published first on the Xbox with a PC port in the works a year later. These "RPGs" will also probably be more like BG Dark Alliance.

KOTOR was published first on the XBox and was a very good RPG. Microsoft's own Fable looks to be an amazingly deep RPG as well.
/QUOTE]

Yes, KOTOR was a wonderful exception to the rule, it even got a decent PC port

	22-04-2004 16:13									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Asher 1) No one said megacorps always make polished games

But it was implied. When you're saying that small-time developersmake less polished games, you're essentially saying that big-time developers regularily make a practice of it. They don't.

quote: 2) Of course the most original games aren't "lame, contrived, and dull"

Then don't run your mouth about Paradox.

quote: And SuperPower is utter crap, though indy-idiots try to tell me otherwise.

I think you're making this up. I've never seen a single person say that Super Power is good, outside of maybe a fanboy or two in their own forums. At best, it had potential.

And what was that about "red herrings"? I don't think I mentioned Golem studios. I might aswell start talking about Activision's Valu-soft devision now.

quote: Let's face it -- when you've got a crap budget with developers who couldn't cut it in the big leagues, you're rarely going to get a decent game.

Ratio wise, it seems that the small guys produce more quality games to ****-fests then the developers backed with big budgets and publishers do.

But my original point was that the small guys "who can't hack it" tend to care more about the game than the money - they're making the games they've always wanted to play. Developers like Paradox and Illwinter put their heart into it and continue to tweak and improve the game years after it's been released (and they even play their own games. ) They listen to feedback from their fans during the whole process. You don't get that kind of love from developers who're only interested in reaching the dead-line and starting on a new project.

quote: People like you are the Snapcase of the gaming world. Unless it's underground or indy, it's mainstream crap and oh we can't have that...

	22-04-2004 17:44									#29
	Remove this text

I've been hearing this rumour for a little while now, ever since KOTR was being done.

We are going to see a world dominated by the few - i've been moaning about it for ages

this wouldn't be so bad but the kind of games these 'few' turn out are IMNSHO, 90% of the time a huge steaming pile of doo dah

The industry has pasted itself into a corner that it cant afford to get out of.

So it will be the smaller companies, working for their real fans that will continue to make the better games(Paradox for example).

When i see Atari/Infogames/EA/Activision(sorry - you did release the CTP2 source, but you still haven't been redeemed just yet) etc on the box - i run away to read a review first, or come here and see what people are saying

	22-04-2004 21:47									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Microsoft's own Fable looks to be an amazingly deep RPG as well.

I'm expecting a slightly deeper RPG than, say, Dark Alliance. But nothing like BG 2. Remember that Molyneux complained that BG 2 was too complex. I would be pleasantly surprised if it had the depth of a game like KOTOR. But I doubt it. I'm expecting something like Black and White: nice gimmicks, boring game.