21-04-2004 01:59									#1
	Obsolescence of Manhattan Project Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Does the tech that obsoletes the Manhattan Project obsolete the production of nukes?

Do the nukes currently in production get upgraded/changed into a new unit, if a new unit becomes available with this new tech?

	21-04-2004 04:26									#2
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I think once the nukes are triggered by the wonder, only a tech that causes nuke unit obsolescence will do it.

	21-04-2004 04:26									#3
	Re: Obsolescence of Manhattan Project Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by hardjoy Do the nukes currently in production get upgraded/changed into a new unit, if a new unit becomes available with this new tech?

Not unless you change it manually to the new unit. Not sure about the manhatten thing btw.

	21-04-2004 13:16									#4
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Isnt the nuke unit slot a special slot though?

	21-04-2004 18:07									#5
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I always thought that the only thing special about the nuke slot itself was that they would threaten you with "my words are backed with SUCH-AND-SUCH" if they could build that unit. It's attack of 99 that requires a civ to have Nuclear Fission, causes a shockwave, and needs the MP...

	22-04-2004 20:45									#6
	Re: Obsolescence of Manhattan Project Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by hardjoy Does the tech that obsoletes the Manhattan Project obsolete the production of nukes?

Obsolescence of the the Manhattan Project should (untested) cause all units of Attack 99 to disapear from the production menu.

It may cause the unit in the nuke missile slot to be removed from the production menu even if it is not Attack 99.

It should not effect units in currently in production.

quote: [SIZE=1] Do the nukes currently in production get upgraded/changed into a new unit, if a new unit becomes available with this new tech?

Unit upgrade is only triggered by tech based obsolescence. The tech that obsoletes the Manhattan Project could also be the tech that obsoletes the nuclear missile, however, making it appear to work. What the civ engine considers an upgrade path for nuclear missile is another question.

	22-04-2004 22:29									#7
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Don't forget Musketeers and Knights. God help the poor bum who makes a land unit into a Nuke and forgets to change its role...

	27-04-2004 12:57									#8
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Thanx guys ! - It was really helpful

Regarding the upgrade path, as far as I've tested, nukes are upgraded quite normally to the unit that becomes available with the tech that obsoletes their construction. This has great effect in my 'Hammer' scenariro where the viking nukes ('Hammers') are upgraded to missionaries.

I wanted the wonder obsolescence to work as a time pressure on the vikings - i.e. they have to build the 'Blood Sacrifices' (Manhattan Project) wonder before this tech is researched in the game, or the wonder won't work.

From what I gather from you replies, if hammers are in construction at this point, they can still be produced indefinitely, if production is not changed. However, increasing civil disorders and need for other improvements will create a pressure which will still make for an interesting dilemma. -continue the violent pagan rituals, or give in to much needed city development.

	27-04-2004 17:15									#9
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I assume the "missionaries" that make them obsolete are diplomats? If they had the same role I'm guessing they'd simply "Hammer production changed to Missionaries in Lillehammer" or wherever.

	28-04-2004 20:54									#10
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They do not have the same role - the upgrade txt "production changed...etc" is simply triggered by the new unit that becomes available with the tech that obsoletes the old unit. So when Baptism cancels pagan weapons, but allows missionaries, the pagan weapons currently in production are "upgraded" to missionaries instead.

	29-04-2004 04:27									#11
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You sure? Leonardo's Workshop won't activate unless the units in question have the same role; see the FW MooJr. scenario, where Destroyer II had a different role from Destroyer III (I think-it might have been the cruisers), and Tellik (LW) refused to upgrade 'em. You'd think the production-upgraded list would judge by the same criteria...

	29-04-2004 05:53									#12
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On a second check, they DO actually have the same role, incidentally. Its just that the missionaries have zero as their Att value, so in effect they're not really offensive weapons - but they do have role zero (Attack) just as the viking nukes. This helps make the AI send the missionaries forward, rather than hide them in their cities. - didn't think this influenced the upgrade, but it seems you might be right.