21-04-2004 03:43									#1
	POLL: Communications during Sunspot activity Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In game, during sunspot activity, factions cannot communicate with each other. So the option of calling up your AI pactmate and "co-ordinating battle plans" is suspended for 20 turns.

Should this apply to human controlled factions?

	21-04-2004 03:56									#2
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But there is no way to force 'no contact'.

	21-04-2004 04:23									#3
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder But there is no way to force 'no contact'.

Other than by vigilant modding

Tass and I have access to all the private forums (but obviously can't see e-mails or chatroom logs - but we can see the results such as a sudden tech aquisition or a co-ordinated attack that wasn't in battle orders before the sunspots)

G.

	21-04-2004 04:26									#4
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Um...I'm not sure that the yea voters know exactly what they're voting for.
For 20 complete turns there could be NO communication between factions.
Let's assume that it only takes 1 day (24 hours) for a faction to play its turn. Of course we all know it takes more than that, but let's just pretend.

There are four factions: Morgan, Angels, Gaians, Spartans. Thus, it would take four days for 1 turn to progress.
Sunspots take 20 turns to elapse.
Thus, if it takes four days for a turn cycle to complete, and twenty would need to be completed, it would be 80 days before factions could communicate again.
Thats nearly 3 months, and this is assuming it only takes 4 days (or 1 day per faction) which this ACDG has shown not to be the case.

Do we really want to wait months and months before we can negotiate treaties, exchange techs, etc again?

	21-04-2004 04:32									#5
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negotiate treaties: a faction can always stop attacking in case of a war.
exchange techs: It's not possible with AI's, why with played factions then?

I don't think Googlie means that the public forum supposed to become silent as well, just that no ingame info is exchanged.

	21-04-2004 04:35									#6
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder negotiate treaties: a faction can always stop attacking in case of a war.

Or not. They don't have to.

quote: exchange techs: It's not possible with AI's, why with played factions then?

Because, if no inter-faction communicatino happens at all in the game, then it becomes boring.

quote: I don't think Googlie means that the public forum supposed to become silent as well, just that no ingame info is exchanged.

Not, but how long can this forum survive if nobody can tell anybody whats going on?
A month? Maybe. Two? I doubt it. But three?

	21-04-2004 04:37									#7
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I was about to vote yes, because it make RP sense, but the practicalities are horrendous. No communication for almost 3 months? That's seriously bad.

I would propose a mid option. There is no in game communication due to sunspots. You can't exchange techs, Ec, sign treaties, etc. but you can communication as human beings, through the forum of general chats. Not sure how it would work RPwise, but it means you can have the major sunspot effects, not having any diplomacy come into action, but you can still talk, and enjoy the game. A major downer if you have 3 months with no diplomacy whatsoever

	21-04-2004 04:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Not, but how long can this forum survive if nobody can tell anybody whats going on? A month? Maybe. Two? I doubt it. But three?

Infiltration info is still passed during sunspot activity, from that on 'sketchy' info can be used to create stories in public forum. This sort of 'fiction' info can even be used to 'diplomatically' feel the terrain. eg. base1 and base2 undergo drone riots due to the war with faction1.

At least, I'm having fun with fellow players in my first PBEM posting stories on how our faction fares, with references to important events. And none of us has infiltration info on another.
It gives an extra feel for that PBEM.

Why should the same not be possible during sunspot activity in a DG, in addition of deliberately making such public info a bit mysterious?

	21-04-2004 04:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Infiltration info is still passed during sunspot activity, from that on 'sketchy' info can be used to create stories in public forum. This sort of 'fiction' info can even be used to 'diplomatically' feel the terrain. eg. base1 and base2 undergo drone riots due to the war with faction1. At least, I'm having fun with fellow players in my first PBEM posting stories on how our faction fares, with references to important events. And none of us has infiltration info on another. It gives an extra feel for that PBEM. Why should the same not be possible during sunspot activity in a DG, in addition of deliberately making such public info a bit mysterious?

Good point.
However this ACDG already experienced 2 activity slumps....I don't think people are going to put the effort into creating these stories based on what others can see through infiltration.

	21-04-2004 04:59									#10
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I think there should be low-level contact allowed. Messages can still be taken to other factions the old-fashioned way, on foot, but negotiations would not be possible.

	21-04-2004 05:13									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Everyone seems to be talking about sunspots and no-contact in the next ACDG. But judging from Googlie's latest post I get the impression he's talking about the current game:

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Other than by vigilant modding Tass and I have access to all the private forums (but obviously can't see e-mails or chatroom logs - but we can see the results such as a sudden tech aquisition or a co-ordinated attack that wasn't in battle orders before the sunspots)

If so - I hope I'm wrong though - it's a rather odd matter to let everyone vote upon individually. After all, all CPUers would vote "no contact", while all Hiveans, Drones and pirates (despite being eliminated) would vote "contact allowed".

	21-04-2004 05:17									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar There are four factions: Morgan, Angels, Gaians, Spartans.

I didn't really mean for the upcoming game (but it'd be relevant there too)

In the current game, sunspots have just hit in 2163

Should the Drones and Hive still be able to tech-share/steal, plan joint attacks etc etc when the CyCon are prohibited from "co-ordinating battle plans" with the Angels or Believers.

And (presumably) the AI honors the sunspot prohibitions, so the Angels and their submissive, the believers, can't swap techs, send units and/or help/credits etc etc

That was the thrust of my poll

	21-04-2004 05:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac If so - I hope I'm wrong though - it's a rather odd matter to let everyone vote upon individually. After all, all CPUers would vote "no contact", while all Hiveans, Drones and pirates (despite being eliminated) would vote "contact allowed".

After which Tass and I will put our heads together and rule "Absolutely no contact until Sunspot activity is ended" - overruling the "self interest" vote but still showing democracy at work ( )

It'd just be interesting to hear players views on this - mine (I can't speak from Tass's perspective) is pretty well made up unless someone can otherwise convince me with an alternative that maintains the in-game integrity

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns I think there should be low-level contact allowed. Messages can still be taken to other factions the old-fashioned way, on foot, but negotiations would not be possible

And if this option is the majority held view, then maybe there is a 2-turn delay between agreement and execution, to allow for the carrier pigeons etc to rest on their transplanetary journey

G.

	21-04-2004 05:44									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie And if this option is the majority held view, then maybe there is a 2-turn delay between agreement and execution, to allow for the carrier pigeons etc to rest on their transplanetary journey

Googlie, are you aware that - despite AFAIK not officially having unified - the Drone jtsisyoda has access to the Apolyton Hive private forum, so that he can read all Hive plans anyway? (Yeah there I go again Tassadar )


Btw, for the next game, is there no way at all to disable sunspot activity and the consequential impossibility to contact each other? I find it rather silly that in a society which has planetary data networks, maglev transportation and possibly mind-to-mind psi telepathy (those last two not yet researched/discovered in this particular game though) two faction leaders can't have a chat or send some data files to each other.

	21-04-2004 05:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac If so - I hope I'm wrong though - it's a rather odd matter to let everyone vote upon individually

Many polls in this ACDG i thought it was odd that people voted individually...

	21-04-2004 06:23									#16
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I'm thinking, why not add some kind of unit contact clause? After all, if two units from the same faction are sitting next to each other, they can obviously communicate. Thus, when sunspots hit, if you have a unit adjacent to the other faction you're trying to communicate to then that unit can 'run home' (only in the RP sense) and thus communication can continue.

While biased... another suggestion would be for if you have infiltration with a faction you could then communicate but if they don't with you, then you can't talk back...

	21-04-2004 06:32									#17
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Or perhaps have it only for a week or two, and then allow communication.
And if we're sufficently advanced (satellites and all that), then just allow it.

	21-04-2004 06:37									#18
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* MrWhereItsAt thinks the whole sunspot thing is silly - if we can build telephone lines now, why not on Planet? It would take MASSIVE flares (life-threatening ones) to cut communications like this. I'm voting against no contact for the reasons that it is impractical in the game and silly in reality.

	21-04-2004 13:13									#19
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The quirks of another sun, MWIA. And remember that there are two suns in Alpha Centauri. No way predicting what that could do to 'enhance' those flares. And a last point, the magnetic field of Chiron itself. AFAIK it could be more susceptible to this kind of 'interruption' then Earth's magnetic field.

Remember, Battle plans are (at least nowadays) transmitted with encoded quickburst transmissions. Perhaps sunspots have a higher change interrupting the contents of such bursts.

	21-04-2004 14:37									#20
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I'm not a dedicated Astronomer, but I am a Physicist, and you can colour me deeply doubtful.

	21-04-2004 15:52									#21
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Allow it.

Allow it at all times.

-Jam

	21-04-2004 18:18									#22
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* Skanky Burns makes a mistake and colours MWIA orange instead.

	21-04-2004 19:10									#23
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I voted no contact. I do feel the concerns of tass, Drogue and others. However I feel that if we roleplay well this could be mitigated.

My suggestion is:
First, no tech exchange should be allowed. Tech sharing requires substantial amount of information exchange and would be expected to be interrupted easily by the sunspot activity. Even if we are missing 1 digit of data, the tech will not work.

Second, no close coordinate of military plans. For the same reason.

However, faction should still be able to manage get truce or treaty, through multiple attempts, and signals of attacks. For example, one could receive a spratic message like this: "We ... the war is bad for ... wish ... peace ...", or " ... plans to attack ... angel base named ... ".

As for whether real coordination is conducted I'm sure the GooglieGod and tass can moderate the turns, though I realize it means more work for them. We'd all appreciate the work.

Oh and btw the interexchange of ambassordors is approved by the gods as far as I know, for the Drones and Hive is perm pacted. However, the embassordors would not be able to transmit infor back to his faction during the sunspot activity, and thus should refrain himself from posting relavent info in his home faction.

	21-04-2004 19:19									#24
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quote: Even if we are missing 1 digit of data, the tech will not work.

With FEC it will.

	21-04-2004 19:47									#25
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What's a FEC?

	21-04-2004 19:53									#26
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no comunications!
if this is roleplaying we have to take it "the full mounty".

	21-04-2004 20:43									#27
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I would have been oposed to cutting out comunications at any earlier point in the game (when their was a lot to talk about Diplomacticaly) but by this point theirs little do discuss as we are in the final war.

Still though I am not realy leaning strongly in either direction, I see a bit of RP value and I see a rather silly penalty being aplied to the Hive and Drones who are after all RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER and yet supposed cant comunicate.

Also color me the same orange that was painted on WIA, they could use fiber optic cable for christ sake!

	21-04-2004 21:28									#28
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When would fiber optic technology be discovered according to the game?

	21-04-2004 21:46									#29
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Ummm.... 1970!!!

	21-04-2004 21:53									#30
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But I thought that about all techs are lost in the Unity incident and so we need to research them all from the start.