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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:35
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One of Jamski's previous polls indicated that people don't want a heavily modded alphax.txt, however some minor modifications wouldn't be bad. Therefore I'd like to propose these two modifications. The goal is to make the game somewhat more balanced by making Mind/Machine Interface not such a game-breaking tech, and thus hopefully making the game a bit longer and more fun.
First suggestion: Change the Cloudbase Academy tech prerequisite to N-Space Compression. Delaying that SP will hopefully make it less overpowering.
Second suggestion: Reduce the movement points (MPs) of choppers from 8 to 5 or 6 in the alphax.txt. In-game, the result would be that SAM choppers have 5/6 MPs, while non-SAM choppers have 7/8 MPs. Thus a reduction of 2 or 3 MPs is my suggestion. Hopefully this will make choppers no longer the weapons of mass destruction they currently are due to their long range and ability to perform multiple attacks in the same turn, while still keeping them very useful for shorter-range combat.
Of course when Fusion Power is discovered they'll get a movement boost of +2 and they'll be able to fly about as far as they could previously, but by the time Fusion Power is discovered, most likely or hopefully all factions will already have D:AP, MMI and AdvMilAlg, and thus have had the time to create an effective defence against the chop-and-drop tactic. Now a faction researching MMI only a few years before everyone else can already give a decisive difference which will result in that faction easily winning the game by using the chop-and-drop tactic before anyone has had the chance to create a defence against it. 
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Comrade Tassadar
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I assume fixing the Angels is also a modification that needs to be made?
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buster
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Aarhus, Denmark
Oct 1999
time: 06:35
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Just a couple of tips from experience.
1) Seriously modifying rules is generally a bad idea unless you are having the game exacctly to test out the mods. Even minor modifications can change the way things develop drastically. I believe most players are not here to take part in experimentation but because they like the team activity and the roleplay around the game as they know - not some variant that in practice may turn out to play radically different.
2) The best weapon against drop & chop is distance. Being able to drop in does not help much if the opponent is too far away to drop to. Thus one way to counter the overpowering effect of choppers without radically changing their properties is simply to play on a very large map with islands that are well over 8 squares apart each faction starting on a seperate island. You cannot drop into seabases so such a setup will effectively disable the usual pattern of everyone rushing for choppers & then having a showdown. Such a setup will however also make it hard on factions best played agressively as any kind of early attack gets hard. Besides that in my opinion it is more the drop than the chop factor that makes drop & chop so succesful. Doing drop & chop with needlejets only is not much different from doing it with choppers you just need some more. If you want to limit something that really will change playstyle - limit the drop range.
3) Still though there will be no way to space opponents close without some tech suddenly making a major shift in relative power. Personally I believe you have to accept that the terms of game are that if you play an agressive faction you have to go on the offensive very early & if youre playing a builder you just need to ensure you do not fall behind and that you are toast if you do.
4) Any kind of modding will advantage one playstyle or faction over others thus generally you should either play with a mix of factions using standard settings or particular factions (say all builder factions) using a setup favoring builders or say a small spaced closely packed setup populated by believer and Hive style factions.
In short - one cannot have it all. You should decide first:
a) Do you want to play a standard game or experiment with mods. (ie: are you playing because you like the ganme as you know it or because you wan't to try out something different).
b) Do you want a mix of styles or to favor a certain playstyle (say "fast paced slug it out" or "were all going for transcend").
c) Once this is decided - decide on mods/map size etc. Suggesting mods before you know what kind of map, how many & what kind of factions makes no real sense.
Personally I prefer vanilla settings & a mix of factions. That you are toast if you are an egghead next to a couple of industrial factions and they get MMI before you do should come as no surprise and is not something to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is the fact that you managed to be an egghead and be late anyway. Not being so is what the game is all about.
What can be done that will not make it into playing a different game is:
Disabling cooperate or diplo victory. Essentially you win by transcending or killing everyone else off. This keeps the game alive. There will still be plenty of cooperation but nothing is settled until the end. Disabling SPs also won't change the game significantly. In my opinion it is not really needed though - not even empath guild.
Other than that it comes down to decide what kind of game you want (build, conquest or mixed) - create a map that matches - decide what mods to use (if any) in that sequence.
Last edited by buster on 22-04-2004 at 05:11
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mart7x5
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How about enabling heavy transport ability?
I think it is turned off in the tandard alphax.txt version.
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Comrade Tassadar
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Morganic bugfix:
quote:
;
; Sid Meier's ALPHA CENTAURI
;
; FACTION FILE: Morgan Industries
;
; Copyright (c) 1997, 1998 by Firaxis Games, Inc.
;
; ALPHA CENTAURI reads the rules of the game from this file at
; startup. Feel free, at your own risk, to experiment with editing
; this file. We recommend you make a backup copy of the original.
;
#MORGAN
Morgan Industries, The Mogul, Morganites, M, 2, Morgan, M, -1, 0, 0, 1, 0,
TECH, Indust, ENERGY, 100000, SOCIAL, +++ECONOMY, POPULATION, 10, COMMERCE, 1, SOCIAL, +++SUPPORT
Economics, Free Market, ECONOMY
Economics, Planned, nil
Morganic, Morgan,
Jeneba, Kai, The Jeneba Complex
CEO, shrewd, monopolistic, wealthy, bloated,
Filthy Money Grubber
dominate Planet's economy
to reap the rightful rewards of skillful investment and planning
achieving total monopolistic control of all of Planet's resources
achieving total monopolistic control of all of Planet's resources
grab every drop of Planet's wealth for yourself
counting his ill-gotten energy tokens
counting your ill-gotten energy tokens
monopolistic grasping
monopolistic grasping, M1
business plans, M2
corporate empire-building, M1
investment, M1
exploiting Planet's natural wealth
Corporate Security
Morgan Corporate Policy
#BASES
Morgan Industries
Morgan Metagenics
Morgan Bank
Morgan Trade Center
Morgan Biochemical
Morgan Data Systems
Morgan Hydroponics
Morgan Mines
Morgan Processing
Morgan Solarfex
Morgan Entertainment
Morgan Distribution
Morgan Pharmaceuticals
Morgan Metallurgy
Morgan Transport
Morgan Antimatter
Morgan Energy Monopoly
Morgan Collections
Morgan Construction
Morgan Interstellar
Morgan Aerodynamics
Morgan Robotics
Morgan Studios
Morgan Gravitonics
#END
#WATERBASES
Morgan Hydrochemical
Morgan Ocean Resources
Morgan Marine
Morgan Sea Platform
Morgan Dock
#END
#BLURB
^ Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary,
but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need
as well as greed have followed us to the stars, and the rewards
of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep
thrumming of our common pulse.
^
^ -- CEO Nwabudike Morgan,
^ "The Centauri Monopoly"
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {CEO Nwabudike Morgan}
^BACKGROUND: {Namibian Diamond Tycoon, Unity Franchise Holder}
^AGENDA: {Free Market Economics, Pro-Industry}
^TECH: {Industrial Base}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+1 ECONOMY: {Industrial conglomerate}
^-1 SUPPORT: {Followers have expensive tastes}
^COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
^Begins with 100 extra energy credits.
^Need HAB COMPLEX for bases to exceed size 4: {Creature comforts at a premium}
^{May not use Planned Economics.}
#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Vendetta is bad for business, $NAME1. I suggest
we pledge Blood Truce and get back to work."
"Fair enough. I shall order hostilities to cease."
"Sorry, $NAME3, but I plan to put you out of business."
#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Friend $NAME1, I can offer lucrative trading arrangements
if you will agree to a Treaty of Friendship. Shall we
become business partners?"
"By all means. Let us prosper together in peace."
"No. All of the profit would find its way into your pocket."
#ALIENFACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Vendetta must be bad for Progenitor business as much as humans, $NAME1. I suggest
we pledge Blood Truce and get back to work."
"Economy: important. Death: to be avoided. Truce: agreed."
"$NAME3: believes money can save. Progenitor: disagree. War: continues!"
#ALIENFACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"$NAME1, your lack of interest in human commerce makes you a
natural ally, for we have no point of contention. Shall we
sign a Treaty of Friendship and work toward other common goals?"
"Commerce: not the only result. Friendship: valued. Treaty: agreed."
"Progenitor: no benefit: human treaty policies. Decline: politely."
# ; This line must remain at end of file
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
...drop the effects of the Covert Ops Centre. |
This will effect all factions then. But maybe it is good to make spying more difficult.
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mart7x5
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How about:
- sonar buoy
- undersea boreholes
- fixes of abilities and other described in SMAC Academy for example.
Were they considered already?
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by buster
2) The best weapon against drop & chop is distance. Being able to drop in does not help much if the opponent is too far away to drop to. Thus one way to counter the overpowering effect of choppers without radically changing their properties is simply to play on a very large map with islands that are well over 8 squares apart each faction starting on a seperate island. |
This hasn't been polled, but I hope we'll be playing on a large map at max. IMO the bigger the map is, the weaker the Spartans and other momentum factions are, so eg a huge map with large distances between the humans would give the builders an "unfair" disadvantage.
quote:
Besides that in my opinion it is more the drop than the chop factor that makes drop & chop so succesful. Doing drop & chop with needlejets only is not much different from doing it with choppers you just need some more. |
But if you need more of them, it'll take longer to build up a sufficient attack force, giving other factions some time to set up an effective defence, and thus not making the rush to MMI and who gets it only a few years before the rest so important.
quote:
That you are toast if you are an egghead next to a couple of industrial factions and they get MMI before you do should come as no surprise and is not something to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is the fact that you managed to be an egghead and be late anyway. Not being so is what the game is all about. |
That's of course a large part of the truth, but it's IMHO too simple to wave away any attempt of modification & game improvement just like that. The game designers are also mere humans with flaws who couldn't test everything extensively, so it's not as if the game is "perfectly balanced". Though "Just deal with it." is of course a valid response to such game characteristics/inbalances, it's also an equally valid response to try to change the situation and make MP games into something more interesting than a mere race to MMI and the consequential slugfest.
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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
This hasn't been polled, but I hope we'll be playing on a large map at max.
IMHO too simple to wave away any attempt of modification & game improvement just like that. The game designers are also mere humans with flaws who couldn't test everything extensively, so it's not as if the game is "perfectly balanced". Though "Just deal with it." is of course a valid response to such game characteristics/inbalances, it's also an equally valid response to try to change the situation and make MP games into something more interesting than a mere race to MMI and the consequential slugfest. |
We've been playing the same game for what, 6 years now? We should have learned all of the games weaknesses and tendencies by now, eh?
From my perspective why with the realization that the base unmodified game does typically progress along inherent tendencies (because we have played it so many times, and we do understand it extremely well), why having the ability to modify the game via the alpha(x).txt file as well as using a streamlined map that takes into account the typical tendencies of players and AI's, why it can force players into shifting their gameplay in response, exploring avenues they had no reason to previously, making them think, or question their traditional responses when confronted with the usual choices. This then opens up new vistas for the game, and I think makes the game more enjoyable than just playing the same old base game that we know what to do in each circumstance encountered.
My $0.02 on the subject.
btw I know that my name has been mentioned for setting up the next ACDG game, and am wondering if this has been decided or not yet. np either way, but if it has been decided, then if it can be posted accordingly, then I can either move on to other projects or take a more active roll in how the game is being set up.
D
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22-04-2004 01:32
and (having learned from how the ACPSG ended after all my efforts 
I just tested how you will react.
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