22-04-2004 10:54									#1
	SE Limits Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I was wondering does SE ratings have limits or it's possible to go beyond those?

For instance, in the Economy catergory, in the game you have between -3 (-2 energy each base) to 5 (+1 energy/sq; +4 energy/base; +3 commerce).

If somehow you were able to achieve an rating of 6, would you be able to gain greater benefits or would you only receive the same benefits as you would have gotten if you had the rating of 5?

Only one case I know this is not so and this is with the Probe rating.

Regarding the Support rating, it would seem to me that it's pointless to try to achieve a rating of 4 or greater since in the game you have -4 to 3 for Support and for rating of 3, you can support up to 4 units or up to that base size for free. Seem to me you can't beat that.

Anyway hope I made sense at all - am very tired right now ha.

	22-04-2004 11:10									#2
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a lot of ratings are defined only by their range

Research, Industry, Support, Police, and a lot of the others stats.

Those I know are capped by the limits, so it doesn't make any difference to exceed them

Efficiency and Planet in some sense does not have a bound. So with Effic 9 you have less b-drones and less energy wasted, methinks. With high Planet you get lots of psy combat bonus. The pollution thing I think is still capped.

	22-04-2004 11:53									#3
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I thought there was a "rollover" bug somewhere. Meaning that if you go too high, you will crash and end up with the max. negative.

I'm not too sure if there is a cap either.

	22-04-2004 12:40									#4
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IIRC, the rollover bug only effects Probe. Haven't done any testing for others though.

	22-04-2004 13:16									#5
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For Efficiency their are Faction wide Effects (B-Drones and Lab/Pych/Econ Slider waste) and their are Bases specific effects (Raw Energy waste). The Base specific stuff I belive is uncapped, theis just a formula that plugs that bases efficiency (Faction Efficincy + Chreech + Golden Age), the distance from HQ, the dificulty and spits out the Enegy Waste.

Faction wide Drones I belive is uncapped and also determined by a formula, its relitivly easy to determine what your Buracracy limit is but its EXTREAMLY hard to figure out ware the drones apear (especialy if you have captured enemy bases). The Sliders are caped anything over 4 Efficiency just gives you Paradigm Economy (shouldnt it be called Paradign Efficiency? *rushes off to edit his Alphax*)

	22-04-2004 13:32									#6
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Speaking of Efficiency, approximately what will your energy output be multiplied per point of efficiency added?

	22-04-2004 14:26									#7
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Depends VERY much on number of bases and spacing of bases.

And its Paradigm

-Jam

	22-04-2004 18:00									#8
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Capping - yes, that's the word I was looking for.

So only the Planet

-3 Wanton ecological disruption; -3 fungus production
to
3 ecological wisdom; maximun chance of native life form capture

and

Efficiency

-4 economic paralysis
to
4 paradigm economy

are uncapped as in there are benefits in having rating higher than '4' and disadvantages in having rating lower than -4 for Efficiency and -3/3 for Planet?

	23-04-2004 01:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan I thought there was a "rollover" bug somewhere. Meaning that if you go too high, you will crash and end up with the max. negative. I'm not too sure if there is a cap either.

I don't know about a max negative rollover but with the probe bug apparently getting to a +4 probe rating will reset your probe rating to zero.

If playing the angels, I would likely go knowledge just to avoid the whole problem

	23-04-2004 02:46									#10
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The efficiency explanation has been nicely covered.

A brief recount:

Efficiency

Capped
SE setting slider bar value are capped within -4 to 4

Uncapped
B-drones - how many bases before B-drones appears. There is a formula for determining where b-drones appears, it requires the knowledge of the order of every currently existing base established. If your b-drones is every seventh bases, you go through the whole list of bases and all bases that are numbered as multiple of seven and also belongs to you suffers b-drones. (Credits to Kody for this knowledge)

Efficiency used to determine energy wastage inside the base is uncapped too.

Planet

Capped
Ecological rating for determining ecodamage is capped within -3 to 3
This also applies to mindworm capture too

Uncapped
The only function that is uncapped is the +10%/planet psy combat bonus
Hence with bad planet such as -5, you get -50% penalty
With good planet like +8 you get +80% bonues

	23-04-2004 06:47									#11
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For efficiency, a rating of below 0 is treated as 0 for purposes of B-drones, and a rating of -4 is as bad as anything worse for energy lost in each base - everything will be lost except at the HQ.

	23-04-2004 07:31									#12
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Are all other settings permanmently capped except for probe, planet, and efficiency?

	23-04-2004 11:02									#13
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Industry is definately capped.

	23-04-2004 11:58									#14
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At high difficulty levels, the AI gets bonuses directly to mineral and nutrient row length (and probably tech cost). These can stack with high industry or growth to produce, for example, 3 nutrient wide growth boxes, or other otherwise unattainable circumstances, in some sense bypassing the SE limits.

	23-04-2004 22:10									#15
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some are capped and some aren't, mess around with the text files to see.

	23-04-2004 23:13									#16
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I understand about cirumstances outside of SE itself, that's fine and good.

I'm more concerned about SE settings themselves as displayed on the SE window. Would going over or below caps make any impact on the gameplay itself?

Yes, the gameplay do have an impact on SE settings, we've gone over this. My question is the other way around.

	23-04-2004 23:15									#17
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I think the consensus is:

Efficiency and Planet have effects past their caps
Probe has a bug past its cap
All other settings have no further effects outside their ranges

	28-04-2004 07:53									#18
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Is Research capped, such as with the Consciousness (+2 Res), Knowledge (+2 Res) and Cybernetic (+2 Res) = +6?

Last edited by Glacialis on 28-04-2004 at 09:03

	28-04-2004 10:12									#19
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According to the game, the highest you can go with Research would be +5 in which labs research is increased by 50%. I don't know if +6 would benefit the player at all although.

	18-05-2004 12:49									#20
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I've discovered, through Impaler's mod, that econ below -3 does have further negative effects. I haven't worked out exactly what they are, but in going from -4 econ to -5 econ, I lost a unit of raw energy at each of my base tiles. Many base tiles produced no energy at this point. More interestingly, most of those bases had recycling tanks.

	18-05-2004 15:54									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus I don't know if +6 would benefit the player at all although.

It doesn't in my experience.