24-04-2004 08:24									#1
	Submersible planet buster carrier Enter the AD-FREE zone

Submersible planet buster carrier

Can it be designed in SMAX/SMAC? I seem to not be able put both carrier deck and pressure hull into one cruiser chassis.
Without carrier deck planet buster do not want accept order "L"
Without pressure hull... well it won't submerge in the way i want lol

	24-04-2004 08:52									#2
	Re: Submersible planet buster carrier Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Submersible planet buster carrier

I've had this discussion before argueing that subs can't support aircraft (i.e. IMO jets), and Googlie has argued back that submarine "missile carriers" are in existence in today's navies, thus dispelling the idea that subs can't support air units.

Submersible Planet Buster Carriers? They should be buildable, as they are in existence today in the various fleets of the world.


D

	24-04-2004 09:48									#3
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My problem is that I do not know how to do it. Is there any other way around it instead of putting pressure hull and carrier deck together?

	24-04-2004 10:00									#4
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the _AI_ always knows where you ships are, so it's useless against it (you're probably better off with armour or escorts). But in MP i can see how it might have a place. Other than pressure hull and carrier deck though, I can't see how else it might be done.

	24-04-2004 11:32									#5
	Re: Re: Submersible planet buster carrier Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan I've had this discussion before argueing that subs can't support aircraft (i.e. IMO jets), and Googlie has argued back that submarine "missile carriers" are in existence in today's navies, thus dispelling the idea that subs can't support air units. Submersible Planet Buster Carriers? They should be buildable, as they are in existence today in the various fleets of the world. D

if you are talking about ballistic missile subs, then yes. They carry sizable nukes. I'm not sure of their megaton rating, probably not as big as the ICBM's, but should be enough to knock out several cities.

	24-04-2004 12:08									#6
	Re: Re: Re: Submersible planet buster carrier Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dissident if you are talking about ballistic missile subs, then yes. They carry sizable nukes. I'm not sure of their megaton rating, probably not as big as the ICBM's, but should be enough to knock out several cities.

Especially if they are MIRV; the Trident II SLBM has up to eight 475kt warheads, for example.

An Ohio class submarine has twenty-four tubes for launching these missiles. Wikipedia has more.

	24-04-2004 13:15									#7
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 My problem is that I do not know how to do it. Is there any other way around it instead of putting pressure hull and carrier deck together?

You can always create a basic unit in the #UNITS section of alphax.txt file, but I don't understand the problem. Normally carrier deck and deep pressure hull can be combined in a naval transport. You sure you already have the tech that allows two special abilities for a unit? The other thing can be that you are creating this 'missile sub' within a custom faction which you gave already 2 free abilities for every unit. AFAIK if you give two free abilities to a faction, you can place 2 abilities on top of those in the workshop, but only one of those workshop given ones will work.

	24-04-2004 13:44									#8
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Nope, I can't do it in both SMAC/X. I cannot design both spacial abilities, and those two specifically. I have neural grafting toggled.
what happens? something with files?

	24-04-2004 13:55									#9
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What do you suppose the difference(s) between Cloaking and the DeepPressure Hull are. The datalinks mentions zone of control exemption for cloaking, but asside from that, are their undetectabilities the same? I know they have different prereqs and one is for land the other for sea and that the AI is reputed to be able to spot you no matter what, but viz-a-viz human players and assuming that you were building it in the #UNITS environment, I know that the cloaking definitely works as advertised, that you have to try to go there to spot them, but I don't know if the DeepPressure Hull is supposed to behave that way too. The datalinks spell out the attempt to enter their tile thing for cloaked units, but only say for subs that they are 'difficult for enemies to detect'.

	24-04-2004 13:56									#10
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One problem with all of this...

An aircraft deck/submersible transport would be able to carry planes and choppers too. It's just too awkward.

	24-04-2004 15:24									#11
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Johndmuller: I thought DPH behaved the same as CD, but I can tell you for certain after this summer. I'm in a PBEM in which my faction has DPH as FreeAbility, so when I discover NanoMetallurgy undoubtedly some poor foil will stumble over my silent subs...

Patashu: I don't see the problem, just bring the sub to the surface, lifts bring out the aircraft and off they go. It's merely a matter of size for this kind of subs.

	24-04-2004 15:56									#12
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Skip the lifts and surfacing, and just build submersible aircraft. Launch them out of giant torpedo tubes. Problem solved.

	24-04-2004 16:02									#13
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That still wouldn't explain choppers being able to use the submersible carrier.

	24-04-2004 16:28									#14
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Indeed!!

Besides, if you have a whole invasion force onboard (marine infantry and such) that sub has to surface once...

	24-04-2004 16:31									#15
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Torpedoes with chopper payload, i think I will start working on that design right away
Could someone load cruiser chassis with pressure hull and carrier deck? and tell me what are results? On my comp I can do it untill I hit "Apply" then it defaults to only one special ability thing ....

	24-04-2004 16:31									#16
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That would be quite a sight at the docks of the city in question!

	24-04-2004 16:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Torpedoes with chopper payload, i think I will start working on that design right away Could someone load cruiser chassis with pressure hull and carrier deck? and tell me what are results? On my comp I can do it untill I hit "Apply" then it defaults to only one special ability thing ....

I'll give it a try later today.

	24-04-2004 22:08									#18
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Is it for a multiplayer game? The AI knows about the position of all your units, and so there isn't much use in a deep pressure hull in SP

	24-04-2004 23:51									#19
	Re: Submersible planet buster carrier Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Submersible planet buster carrier Can it be designed in SMAX/SMAC? I seem to not be able put both carrier deck and pressure hull into one cruiser chassis. Without carrier deck planet buster do not want accept order "L" Without pressure hull... well it won't submerge in the way i want lol

I tested this in SMAC. To my surprise I could put both abilities on a cruiser transport, but after clicking 'done' indeed the second ability was gone. But now comes the weird part. I could construct a sub carrier transport in a coastal base. It is visible in the construction list. Only when I select that unit and go to the workshop one ability is visible on the unit.

	25-04-2004 06:10									#20
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mart7x5,

Yes, you can make these. I've used these lots of times and have advocated for them in numerous threads. I've been able to stockpile up to 8 Sin Busters into one of my Buster subs.

What I'll try to do is find an old save file where I've made them, take a screenshot, and post it here so you can see it. These things are wonderful! Just park it near the coast of your enemy and let the Sin Busters take care of the rest!

	25-04-2004 12:21									#21
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how do we know the ai knows where our units are?

	25-04-2004 12:29									#22
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder ...But now comes the weird part. I could construct a sub carrier transport in a coastal base. It is visible in the construction list. Only when I select that unit and go to the workshop one ability is visible on the unit.

Yes, I finally did a buster sub. It looks like a nasty bug. Workshop behaves strange with this design.

Is that really true that AI always sees subs?

	25-04-2004 12:51									#23
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now I think of it, I have never built a sub. That's why I asked the above question. I have no way of verifying AI behaviour.

	25-04-2004 13:45									#24
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Well, Maniac told me once that he sent a sub in sea in the map editor and that immediately in the ai's turn ship(s) from half across the map started to move towards it.