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Solomwi
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Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:35
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I've picked up on something about Seafaring that may or may not already be well known. If it is, I haven't seen it. When seafaring civs (presumably) take coastal cities, they take them with harbors intact, or at least seem to have a much better chance to do so.
Into the modern age as Scandinavia on a huge continents map and, though I've fought four wars and am currently fighting my fifth (silly Xerxes). Due to my late warmongering start, I've had amphibious units, either Berserks or Marines, in every one. I've employed a heavy amphibious strategy every time, capturing thirty or so coastal towns via amphibious invasion, and don't remember having to rebuild a harbor yet. In all my past games, losing the harbor upon taking that overseas town with a luxury has been a real bane to my efforts, so it's something I tend to notice, and it hasn't happened to me yet. The more I think about it, though, it seems like militaristic civs have a better chance of taking barracks intact, too. Has anybody else noticed this? Has it been discussed? Is there anything to it or am I just having an extreme lucky string where this is concerned?
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Solomwi
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Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:35
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Debug as the Vikings, attacking Amsterdam, which has been given barracks, granary, marketplace, courthouse, harbor and airport, defended by two units. I've got all techs through the industrial era so nothing gets destroyed because I don't know about it yet:
Trial #1: A land based conquest of Amsterdam resulted in the destruction of the courthouse and airport.
Trial #2: Only the barracks were destroyed.
Trial #3: The granary, harbor and courthouse were destroyed.
Trial #4: All six improvements survived.
Trial #5: Barracks, courthouse and harbor destroyed.
Trial #6: Airport and granary destroyed.
Trial #7: All six survived.
Trial #8: All six survived.
Trial #9: Airport destroyed.
Trial #10: Airport and barracks destroyed.
I know it's not a large enough sample to make any detailed conclusions, but it is enough to show that whether non-culture improvements remain is random. Even though it's a small sample, here are the numbers (times survivng):
Barracks: 7/10
Harbor: 8/10
Marketplace: 10/10
Courthouse: 7/10
Granary: 8/10
Airport: 6/10
Based just on this, I'd say my original premise, that seafaring helps you keep harbors, is wrong. The odds of keeping any improvement are just higher than I thought, and I notice more when I have to rebuild that first harbor than anything else.
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Mr Justice
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on a related point i have noticed that when i've captured a costal city which previously had a harbour. i've noticed that the harbour is gone when i take the city.
but the city (and in my case the 4-5 cities connected to it on the island) were still connected to my trade network even though i had no pressent harbour on the island. the city seems to keep the "connected to trade network" flag once a harbor has been built weather that harbor remains or not.
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Mr Justice
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no definately not connected due to airport, as i recall twas late middle/early industrial era that this occured.
i was at war wit the japs, and took 3-4 of their cities on thier homeland. since i was at war the connection of the trade network was nothing to do wit the japs.
i cant fully recall, but the connection was permanent.
i imagine this can be confirmed fairly easily.
btw version is 1.15.
i didnt bother reporting it here at the time and twas only Solomwi's query on the loss of harbors that reminded me of it.
Last edited by Mr Justice on 26-04-2004 at 17:49
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Mr Justice
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actually i might. i'll check when i get home.
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Doc Tsiolkovski
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The original observation (though the small test didn't prove it) may have its merits:
IMHO, the chance for a structure to survive could be consider the shield cost of it, and since Harbors and Barracks for the Viking are much cheaper than e.g. Granaries, it could be true.
But of course, this is entirely speculative; but I tend to agree, since I always thought I would retain Barracks more often with MIL Civs. Quite annoying, since they are more expensive to rebuild for a non-MIL Civ...
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24-04-2004 11:10
for testing!
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