27-04-2004 02:12									#1
	Any hints on suicide galleys? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

After losing 7 galleys, I thought maybe there is a better way.

I was 6 tiles away from 2nd continent. Thus there was only one turn where galley was exposed. It seemed to be located to tile. Once I started varying transition landing I had better success. But losing 7 galleys seems to indicate something more than randon number problems is going on.

Any hints on how to have a more successful result with suicide galleys?

I expect to lose 1/2 but not 7/8. {Oh, was not seafaring tribe.}

PF

	27-04-2004 02:21									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Other than trying to minimize exposure with the shortest route, I don't think there's a thing you can do but switch to a seafaring civ or build the lighthouse. I'm guessing you already knew those two, though.

I have tried using a turn or two before "launch" to uncover as many tiles as safely possible, on the theory that there's less chance of sinking in previously explored waters, but I don't think it has any effect.

	27-04-2004 02:34									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What's weird is direct straight line path did not work. I had to zigzag to find a successful interim tile.

	27-04-2004 03:05									#4
	Got spare money?

Just your luck (in that game ... who knows about the next one).

I avoid the problem altogether -- my curraghs, galleys & dromons are wheeled, with ocean impassable to wheeled.

	27-04-2004 03:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

You sent them one at a time or in groups? I seem to do better in packs, but you can lost all at once.

	27-04-2004 03:24									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Actually, you have better odds if you send them one-by-one as opposed to in stacks. You get the benefit of the exploration of the early, failed attempts, so subsequent attempts don't go where you already know there is no land to be seen.

	27-04-2004 19:04									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

One-by-one.
I tried straight, diagonal tiles, sunk.
South of straight line, sunk.
North of straight lin, sunk.
Straight line x4, all sunk.
One left of straight line start to one right of straight line park, finally made it.

The problem was lost most of the bonus of Great Lib as even though there were 5 civs on the 2nd land mass, I could only contact two before Education.

I was wondering:
-- are the results: sink/float associated with a particular tile or only with random number?
-- is this like govt change, where waiting a turn or turn between attempts increases success rate?
-- do results change if move galley at beginning, middle or end of turn?

PF

	27-04-2004 21:03									#8
	Got spare money?

Sink/float is just a RN, as far as I know. Chance of sinking in ocean (50%?) or sea (25%?), modified by the RN roll you get. AFAIK, it has nothing to do with any one particular tile.

I haven't tested it, but that's my understanding of it. I've had incredible lucky runs where a galley survives 2-3 turns of ocean, and I've had bad runs where I've lost 3 or 4 galleys in a row when all I needed was 1 of them to survive for 1 bloody turn in the ocean.

-Arrian

	27-04-2004 22:27									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If I remember correctly, you have 50% chance to sink when you are at risk (ocean/sea doesn't matter). That becomes 25% if you're seafaring.

planetfall, your 8 trials are way too few to draw any conclusions. Your result (7 or more out of 8 sinking) actually has a decent chance of happening (9 out of 256 times = 3.5%).

	27-04-2004 22:38									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok, I can live with RNG, just didn't know if there was any way to decrease from 50% to 45%. I was having a bad experience last 2 prior games with galleys, so I paid more attention this last game.

Sometimes RNG is solo and other times it is modified by events. For example, odds of planting a spy seem to increase if wait 5 turns between attempts, but replaying a battle with preserve seed always ends with the same results. I didn't know if galleys sinking was more like planting a spy or replaying a battle. It sounds like it is more like
replaying a battle, and you just have to plan on a good amount of failure.

Thanks for the confirmation.
PF

	27-04-2004 23:05									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, if you decrease the number of turns your going to end on tiles that you risk sinking, you'll improve the result.

Exact tile won't affect RNG. What will affect RNG is goody hut poping and apprently making trade deals. I had a game a few months ago where if I didn't contact the AI and buy the contact to the other AI on the landmass my Galley would sink but if I made that deal my Galley would survive. Oh, this was pre-Conquests before communication was moved back.

On Great Libary, if there's only one other player on your landmass (or noone) your probably better off not exploring until after you reach Education. This would maximize the number of techs you don't have and get for free when the AI comes exploring, because the GL will give you all the techs your entiled to that turn before it notices that the wonder is expired from one of the techs you just acquired.

	27-04-2004 23:16									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Joncnunn,

Thanks for the GL tip. I forgot that part. There had been 2 other civs on my landmass. This is C3C so communications comes lates.

PF

	28-04-2004 14:31									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Play as seafaring and the probability of 7 or more sinking from 8 is a minuscule 0.039%.