27-04-2004 02:48									#1
	Rank the Traits: Religious Remove this text

Hi all. Long time reader, 1st time poster.
I was curious how everyone would "rank" the traits.
This time: religious

On a scale of 0-5, 0 being totally worthless and 5 being the best, how would everyone rank the Rel. trait?

Update

Religious averaged 3.5 after 40 votes.
3rd highest ranked.

Chart coming soon.

Last edited by kobo1d on 04-05-2004 at 19:09

	27-04-2004 03:28									#2
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I went with 4 as I put it at the same level as Sci. It has value, but I don't use it a whole lot.

	27-04-2004 06:07									#3
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	27-04-2004 13:05									#4
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4 for this one. The early and cheap Temples are great, especially on high difficulty levels (which I play most often), and later on the cheap Cathedrals are even better (who wants to spend 160 shields for 3 happy faces?). The switching governments can also be powerful... saving a bunch of turns of anarchy is definitely cool.

	27-04-2004 15:44									#5
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Cheap temples are nice, and the long anarchy of non-religious can be a pain, but it just doesn't seem to make the difference for me that other traits do.

	27-04-2004 17:47									#6
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Quatro.

Cheap temple nice. Cheap cathedral nice. Fast anarchy really nice.

-Arrian

	28-04-2004 05:42									#7
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	28-04-2004 13:38									#8
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Culture is always 'useful'. On higher levels and with 1.22, it seems that the AI beelines for Writing, then Map Making and Philosophy.
A religious civ starts with Alphabet, ergo...
And of course, you cannot afford 15+ turns on anarchy.

	28-04-2004 14:28									#9
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Religious is my favourite trait, followed by seafaring

	28-04-2004 17:37									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Culture is always 'useful'. On higher levels and with 1.22, it seems that the AI beelines for Writing, then Map Making and Philosophy. A religious civ starts with Alphabet, ergo... And of course, you cannot afford 15+ turns on anarchy.

No, religious starts with ceremonial burial.

Commercial and Seafaring civs start with Alphabet.

The starting tech is one small downside to the religious trait (though it gives you a leg up on a Monarchy beeline, if you want).

-Arrian

	29-04-2004 01:13									#11
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This is my favorite trait for several reasons, many of which have already been mentioned (like despising turns of anarchy!!), but I have one word to offer: "Temples"

I am a culture hog. (Remove the "g" for a more explicit self-description.) Nothing pleases me more than getting the first temple in the game and watching my culture graph slowly slide in my favor. Ancient temples get even better. I'm sure they interfere with my REX, but everybody gets a temple sooner or later. It makes them happy. I am benevolent to my people, and it combines well with luxury slider usage. Temples increase culture borders and gives me a way to claim borders. Mostly, I envision myself as some divine immortal controlling this empire of peons and governors. Of course they have to build temples in my name! Getting those temples for half price just helps them fulfill their obligations to my divinity.

Temples!

voted 5

	29-04-2004 21:16									#12
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I think this is the trait that has lost the most as people have realized that the traits that gives something that gives real production advantages (agri, comm and industrius) are just stronger.

Sure, cheap temples are kinda nice, but lately I've found that they really impares my early economy. Build them if you have the time, but more focus on rexing and military pays off a LOT more.

(especially when you are building enough workers. when you do, you will catch up to the people who has built early temples in no time, since your cities will be more productive overall. Production is everything.)

	30-04-2004 01:57									#13
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3.

Pays nice when I have it (being on random civs! ), but isn't a real biggie. Worst of all is the wonder path to the golden age being difficult if stuck on a lousy UU or not being able to whack a good war out when the UU is at hand.

Gov switch is nice, but only occurs a couple of times a game, really.

Cheap temples also being good when not on mobilisation-wars
Developing a thing for cathedrals lately, so it also pays there.

Nice, but not awe-inspiring.

	30-04-2004 06:31									#14
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updated stats
religious rose 1 spot

	01-05-2004 13:04									#15
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The utility of this trait is a strict function of difficulty level. The higher the difficulty level, the more necessary the trait. 1/2 price temples and cathedrals become more and more valuable as the number of pop points born content reduce and the opportunities to claim many luxuries in short order diminish. Turns of anarchy become more and more painful to bear as difficulty increases and thus the efficiency and production of your AI enemies increase.

If you're playing on Chieftan to Regent, probably even Monarch, religious is nice, but it is easily beaten by other far more useful traits. Starting on about Emperor, however, religious becomes one of the best to have.

	02-05-2004 01:07									#16
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Even with the doubling of minimum anarchy from 1 turns to 2 turns, it still remains a very solid 4 traight, because of those half price Temples & Catherdrials on Emperor level and above.

	02-05-2004 08:53									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos The utility of this trait is a strict function of difficulty level. The higher the difficulty level, the more necessary the trait. 1/2 price temples and cathedrals become more and more valuable as the number of pop points born content reduce and the opportunities to claim many luxuries in short order diminish. Turns of anarchy become more and more painful to bear as difficulty increases and thus the efficiency and production of your AI enemies increase.

Arnelos, these are all good points and Religious is a great trait if for nothing else than the reduced turns of anarchy. And of course it follows that as difficulty increases, the increased anarchy hurts more. But I'm not so sure that being Religious becomes even more necessary with higher difficulty...simply because to get to those levels you've increased your skill level enormously, learned to live with anarchy and found other ways to deal with unhappiness. You can't scoff at half price temples and cathedrals of course, but often these builds are delayed through necessity anyway.

In that respect, I think you can almost view the thinking of Religious as a "must have" trait in a similar way as wonder addiction - a no brainer when you're starting out, but as you improve your skills you start to learn the subtleties of other traits and how to get by without being Religious.

I'd be interested to know the views of some of our gurus who regularly beat Demigod and Deity.

	02-05-2004 13:20									#18
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I think Religious is a bit more important in C3C than it was in Civ/PtW. Communism has gotten a huge boost, so there is a reason for going through 2 revolutions in games that last that long. Religious can save up to 14 turns of Anarchy, which is an awful lot of production and commerce. The main drawback being that it's a late bonus that comes after the bulk of the Ancient Era. Makes it a somewhat map dependant trait, as some games are won/lost in the Ancient Era while others aren't decided till later in the game.

Temple and Cathedral costs have never been a big deal to me. I rely on luxuries and the luxury slider for happiness, and only build happiness improvements once everything else is taken care of. Exception for games played towards Cultural victory of course.

I'd give it a 3 or 4.

	03-05-2004 01:31									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Arnelos, these are all good points and Religious is a great trait if for nothing else than the reduced turns of anarchy. And of course it follows that as difficulty increases, the increased anarchy hurts more. But I'm not so sure that being Religious becomes even more necessary with higher difficulty...simply because to get to those levels you've increased your skill level enormously, learned to live with anarchy and found other ways to deal with unhappiness. You can't scoff at half price temples and cathedrals of course, but often these builds are delayed through necessity anyway. In that respect, I think you can almost view the thinking of Religious as a "must have" trait in a similar way as wonder addiction - a no brainer when you're starting out, but as you improve your skills you start to learn the subtleties of other traits and how to get by without being Religious. I'd be interested to know the views of some of our gurus who regularly beat Demigod and Deity.

The irony of that post of mine is, I suppose, that I generally DO NOT play as religious civs and I normally play on Emperor level. That said, I do find the advantages of the religious trait to be quite remarkable at that difficulty level... nothing to scoff at.

	03-05-2004 04:38									#20
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For all reasons anteriorly typed (cheaper temples, less anarchy), I vote 4.