27-04-2004 02:50									#1
	Rank the Traits: Seafaring Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hi all. Long time reader, 1st time poster.
I was curious how everyone would "rank" the traits.
This time: Seafaring

On a scale of 0-5, 0 being totally worthless and 5 being the best, how would everyone rank the Sea. trait?

Update

Seafaring averaged 3.405 after 37 votes.
5th highest ranked.

Chart coming soon

Last edited by kobo1d on 04-05-2004 at 19:13

	27-04-2004 03:25									#2
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I voted 3, but I am not a big fan of this trait as some. You just don't need it that much even on archipelago maps. I do see a scenario where having dromons could make things easier, but not required.

	27-04-2004 06:03									#3
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updated stats

	27-04-2004 11:57									#4
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An important new trait and easily exploitable to great advantage by a human player against the AI.

I simply don't see how people can rate this trait below Religious.

	27-04-2004 12:45									#5
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Max points if you play on archipelago. Without curraghs from turn one, you don't explore and you don't trade techs...

And since all your cities will be on the seashore, half-priced harbors are always a good deal...

	27-04-2004 13:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage And since all your cities will be on the seashore, half-priced harbors are always a good deal...

And let's not forget the extra commerce in the centre square for cities.

	27-04-2004 14:43									#7
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Mmmmm....
Byzantines that have built the Great Lighthouse....

5 move Dromans.....
:drool:

	27-04-2004 15:49									#8
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Fairly good, particularly with the early contacts. Virtually useless for the AI. Doesn't provide the fun that other traits to IMHO.

	27-04-2004 18:08									#9
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4.

Start with alphabet. Bonus commerce for coastal cities. Extra move/lower sinking chance.

Very powerful in most situations. On a pangea, not so much. But on arch/continents, it rocks.

-Arrian

	27-04-2004 22:22									#10
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Same here, 4. Cheaper Harbors are always nice too.

	28-04-2004 05:49									#11
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	28-04-2004 07:00									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

A 4 for me. The seafaring trait is much more useful especially after I've moved up a level to Emp.

Useful for being in the trade loop, making full use of the GL (if you get it), plus not to mention the long term power of having that slightly faster sea unit (in my opinion, sea units lose a great deal of their mobility bonus after the railroad).

Of course, the draw back is that it's heavily map dependent. If you're on a pangea, then it's quite useless, and on archi maps, it's not that hard to cross sea/ocean tiles since the gap is much smaller. Very useful on continent maps for those 'suicide' ships looking for the other 1/2 of the opponents.

	28-04-2004 20:14									#13
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4.
I like this trait quite a bit on the large continent maps I play: slightly decreased chance of sinking, early contact, cheap harbors, control of communications and an earlier understanding of the shape of the world are all good. And with wonder enabled +2 movement, overseas invasions are little easier as well as catching and picking off the occasional ships the AI sends to harass (bombardment, or dropping off the one or two units on your soil) before they reach the shore or disappear back into the fog of war.

	29-04-2004 00:50									#14
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The logistics of naval matters in Civ drive me crazy. It seems clumsy and slow compared to other parts of the game. I know it adds to the complexity and multi-level nature of the game, and I even appreciate the gameplay when I do have to address water-based issues. However, I still hate water and often reload maps that are archipelago or just too darn flooded. My hydrophobia lowers my appreciation of this particular trait, whose advantages have already been well described.

Voted 3.

	30-04-2004 06:29									#15
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updated stats
seafaring dropped from 3rd to 5th

	30-04-2004 07:09									#16
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3.
Alleged to have it's uses, but I've yet to explore them. Guess the random civ picker didn't feel like it
Will hold up for th eduration of the game, and scale up to higher difficulties. But I think the city gold, or something like it, may be in commercial already.
The rating indicates my recognition of this trait's potential power, but as yet it is a power virtually completely unknown. Perhaps due to the 'clumsiness' described by eris, but back in civ 1 I had a taste for exploration so 'hydrophobia' is not always an issue

	01-05-2004 13:36									#17
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4.
1/2 price harbors, +1 ship movement (VERY VERY USEFUL FOR SUICIDE CURRAGHS AND GALLEYS!!!), reduced chance of suicide vessels sinking (again... very useful), early exploration advantage, +1 commerce in coastal cities.

Seriously, what's not to like?

Personally, Carthage is one of my favoriate MP civs in C3C. You start on the coast with the ability to build a scouting curragh with +1 movement right from the start while you have a great dual-use UU that can work on both offense and defense even without access to iron or horses. Basically, Carthage is a civ uniquely qualified to make you largely immune to bad luck with resource placement since scouting curraghs/galleys and an early Numidian Merc and catapult army is tough to beat compared to being in the same position without those advantages.

The Byzantines are of course an excellent civ on archiapelago maps, but personally I think the best is England. That corruption reduction is great on the often spread out empires of archiapelago maps, as well as the CUMMULATIVE trade bonuses from the seafaring and commercial traits (+2 trade in the city tile at size 7 plus reduced corruption rates... yeah, you're rolling in money).

Then you have the Dutch... the Vikings... even the admitedly mediocre Portugeuse and Spanish. This is one very good trait.

	02-05-2004 01:19									#18
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This would be a three plus rating.

Only reason it's not a four is that I've moded Curraghs to be impassable in Ocean and require 2 MP in sea and Galley to require 2 MP in ocean.

Nice exploration for getting contacts of those civs you'd otherwise have to march thru an intermedary civ's territory.