27-04-2004 07:54									#1
	Hellenistic Era NES Increase Your PM Length

In 334 BC, near the beginning of his campaign in Persia, Alexander and his army fought the battle of Granicus River. The Macedonian army soundly defeated the Persian army, but Alexander, fighting in the thick of things, was slain. So the Macedonian army, much like Xenophon’s 10 thousand 67 years before, had to fight their way, leaderless, out of Persia. This blow to both Macedon, now without a ruler, and an already weak Persia, gave strength to the independence movements within their territories. The Greek lands once again began bickering and sorting into alliances, and whole regions fought to escape Persian control.

It is now 325 BC. Progress will be 5 years/day unless otherwise noted

There follows a nation list and an explanation of the stats. If you would like a nation that is not listed, simply post stat recommendations and I will put your country on the map. If needed, additional maps will be posted.




Comprehensive Nation Simulator (CNS). Ancient Version.


military effectiveness (combination of training, equipment, leadership, ability to project force and respond quickly, etc. Measures whether your military is capable of defending on home front only or able to move long distances into adjacent areas.) : embarrassing, poor, average, good, exceptional

secret police : limited, basic, adequate, professional, extensive, ubiquitous, [strength of spies, intelligence gathering, assassinations, etc.]

Common living conditions (how well the average person lives, includes social infrastructure such as universities, public utilities, availability of goods and consumer items) : Abysmal, Squalid, Poor, Average, Good, Very Good, Exceptional



Military levels :

None, Infinitesimal, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Very Large, Huge, Enormous, Outrageous

Economy (Average commercial health) :

Primitive, Backwards, Poor, Struggling, Average, Good, Thriving, Exceptional, Glorious, Awe Inspiring

Discontent (Amount of unhappiness, different forms of governments can handle different amounts of unhappiness, and it will be manifested in different ways) :

Insignificant, Minor, Some, Significant, Worrisome, Open Revolt


Tech Level :

Just to generally keep track of how advanced things are, projects, don’t need to be too specific, e.g. “The Bloatian peoples have no knowledge of metallurgy, mathematics, stonecutting, or literature, but are the best stick carvers in the world. They ride into battle on pigs.”


Empire Rating (This is on an absolute scale, so small countries will only be able to have moderate ratings. This includes physical infrastructure, such as roads, mines, engineers, barracks, armories, dockyars, NOT to be confused with social infrastructure, which is covered in Common Living conditions ) :

primitive, scattered, inadequate, limited, varied, sufficient, plentiful, extensive, burgeoning, awesome


Government/Society :

Blurb, e.g. “Absolute despotism enforced by a merciless secret police force. Despite this, the population is annoyingly upbeat and optimistic” etc. Can also include miscellaneous information, such as social mobility, etc., whatever you feel needs to be noted.

	27-04-2004 07:56									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Magna Graeca
Army: Small
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Good
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Alliance of city state ruled by dictator, occasional aristocratic councils



Rome
Army: Medium
Navy: Infinitesimal
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Basic
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Patrician Republic (Rome) dominates ally and subject states

Macedon
Army: Medium
Navy: Tiny
Military Effectiveness: Good
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Significant
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Scattered
Government/Society: Kingdom with supreme leader and subject nobles


Carthage
Army: Small
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Basic
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Oligarchy with magisterial rule.



Sparta
Army: Small
Navy: Infinitesimal
Military Effectiveness: Good
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Squalid
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Significant
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Scattered
Government/Society: Alliance dominated by Sparta, limited suffrage consensus-democracy under a rigid code of law.



Athens
Army: Small
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Basic
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Alliance dominated by Athens, limited democracy



Lydia [Sardis]
Army: Small
Navy: Tiny
Military Effectiveness: Poor
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Kingdom


Egypt
Army: Small
Navy: Small
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Bureaucratic kingdom.

Persia
Army: Medium
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Poor
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Squalid
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Oven Revolt
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Limited
Government/Society: Multiple nations combined under the absolute rule of an emperor.


starting map

Attachment: mediterranean ancient nes 01b.gif
This has been downloaded 62 time(s).

Last edited by foolish_icarus on 29-04-2004 at 03:53

	27-04-2004 07:58									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

updated nation stats

320 BC


Magna Graeca - icarii
Army: Small
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Good
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Alliance of city state ruled by dictator, occasional aristocratic councils


Macedon- foolish icarus
Army: Medium
Navy: Tiny
Military Effectiveness: Good
Secret Police: Professional
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Significant
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Scattered
Government/Society: Kingdom with supreme leader and subject nobles


Carthage - Micha
Army: Small
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Basic
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Oligarchy with magisterial rule.


Athens - Comrade Tassadar
Army: Small
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Basic
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Alliance dominated by Athens, limited democracy


Persia - bipolarbear
Army: Large
Navy: Medium
Military Effectiveness: Poor
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Squalid
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Oven Revolt
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Limited
Government/Society: Multiple nations combined under the absolute rule of an emperor.


Rome
Army: Medium
Navy: Infinitesimal
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Basic
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Patrician Republic (Rome) dominates ally and subject states


Sparta
Army: Small
Navy: Infinitesimal
Military Effectiveness: Good
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Squalid
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Significant
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Scattered
Government/Society: Alliance dominated by Sparta, limited suffrage consensus-democracy under a rigid code of law.


Lydia [Sardis]
Army: Small
Navy: Tiny
Military Effectiveness: Poor
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Struggling
Discontent: Worrisome
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Kingdom


Egypt
Army: Large
Navy: Small
Military Effectiveness: Average
Secret Police: Adequate
Common Living Conditions: Poor
Economy: Average
Discontent: Some
Tech Level:
Empire Rating: Inadequate
Government/Society: Bureaucratic kingdom.

Last edited by foolish_icarus on 30-04-2004 at 05:45

	27-04-2004 11:10									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Senator Freeman and I would liek to request Persia.
So is this like king mitchell's, or do we have to report our decisions to you, and then you control what happens?(Think Olympika bus trip)

	27-04-2004 16:58									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Please let the mod decide the outcome of decisions! I hate people writing "We disembark a billion troops at a foreign country and win easily, annex the country and then the world is conquered".

I will take over Carthage! Hopefully some others are joining in...

	27-04-2004 17:40									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How about this huge mediterrenean map? It has a good extend, is "only" 300 kB in size (3500x2700 pixles) but can be zoomed to a city detail level
I have extracted it from a perfectly two-coloured bmp, which was almost 27 MB in size. The jpeg here is also good quality, but when filling in the colours, you might have to work with the coastlines...

	27-04-2004 19:13									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

good job Micha
I'll see what I can do.

As for the updating, you guys decide. Please note that I may only be able to do full updates ever 2 or 3 days. If someone else that has more available time would like to take over, you're welcome to.

	27-04-2004 19:21									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Perhaps we could share the updates? Like every second one done by you, the rest by me? Problem is that people will disagree with mods playing countries, so we need much more players to do so.

I have started advertisement on SCC Forums for this thread, they have a stable and active NES community there. Please also have a look at the NES linked in my signature

	27-04-2004 19:27									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I claim Magna Graeca, and this time nothing like that comatose powder.

	27-04-2004 21:31									#10
	Tired of ads?

Here's my proposal :

Waiting for updates tends to slow things down. Just carry on self-updating, and if there is any problem, it can be resolved. I will keep an eye on stats and expansion and decide on unresolvable player disputes. I would also play as a country if there are no objections.

Regardless, with one more player we can start.

	27-04-2004 23:47									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Please let the mod decide the outcome of decisions! I hate people writing "We disembark a billion troops at a foreign country and win easily, annex the country and then the world is conquered".

Yes I agree completely, except, I wish to reatin the right to create a Morganius Freemanibus Alliance, within reason.

	27-04-2004 23:50									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Persia would like to appeal to its citizens. \The leaders of Persia would like to hear the demands of the citizens. We would liek to keep the citizens from revolting.

	27-04-2004 23:59									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear Yes I agree completely, except, I wish to reatin the right to create a Morganius Freemanibus Alliance, within reason.

No. You cannot control other nations. This is exactly what I meant. Your MFA soon grew bigger than Europe, and you were the only one who determined that. You cannot name a nation that then becomes your ally.
You can offer an alliance, but the mod should answer it. That´s the way to go. And that´s the very reason why a mod shouldn´t play a country himself.

If you can get more countries, I´d like to be the mod. I would then drop my claims on Carthage...

	27-04-2004 23:59									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And bibolar: Please stop double-posting.

	28-04-2004 00:11									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: No. You cannot control other nations. This is exactly what I meant. Your MFA soon grew bigger than Europe, and you were the only one who determined that. You cannot name a nation that then becomes your ally. You can offer an alliance, but the mod should answer it. That´s the way to go. And that´s the very reason why a mod shouldn´t play a country himself. If you can get more countries, I´d like to be the mod. I would then drop my claims on Carthage...

	28-04-2004 00:15									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: No. You cannot control other nations. This is exactly what I meant. Your MFA soon grew bigger than Europe, and you were the only one who determined that. You cannot name a nation that then becomes your ally. You can offer an alliance, but the mod should answer it. That´s the way to go. And that´s the very reason why a mod shouldn´t play a country himself. If you can get more countries, I´d like to be the mod. I would then drop my claims on Carthage...

i'm not saying that I want to relicate the Morgan Freeman Alliance exactly, besides that, how was Mexico ever going to f*** China? Certainly not with the prestigious Mexican Airforce! I realize the MFA was friggin huge, but I took lots of crappy countries. Sort of a lower class revolt in terms of nations.
I think if we are to form bonds with NPC's then they should only be with countries that are crap.
I agree with you about hte mod thing, I'd like it much more if alliances of the morgan freeman sort, could be determined by the mod.
I htink that in this NES we are going to have ot have hte mod play a country, for anything interesting to happen.

	28-04-2004 00:16									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hypocrite

	28-04-2004 00:38									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

At least you didn´t Double-post again

Well, if there are no objections, I´d like to be mod, at least for the start. Foolish can take over anytime.

I think you´re right with the mod having to play a country, but the other players should watch out so that there aren´t any advantages for the mod´s country.

	28-04-2004 00:50									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hellenistic Era NES' Boring.

	28-04-2004 03:57									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then maybe you shouldn´t join?

	28-04-2004 05:50									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Go for it Micha. And please, play as a country as well.

Sorry Tassadar. My reasoning was that an NES like this could survive with fewer players, whereas a more modern one would need more players than we have. You should play anyway.

I'll take Macedon.

	28-04-2004 05:51									#22
	Support Apolyton

Or maybe you should join tass, and make it interesting. So you can't play as China or Russia, but you cna still change your nation to communist, who knows, maybe the GCC will be recreated. Just give it a chance
AND YOUR UNDYING SUPPORT!

	28-04-2004 06:24									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

But there are two things:

1. The stats aren't all that different.
2. I know nothing about ancient history.

	28-04-2004 06:31									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You think I know anything period? I tried to make Mexico an illeterate Aztec country in 2010 for christ(Lenin)'s sake!

You don't need to know about history. Just, how to post. And what does it matter about hte stats? Don't be such a friggin ***** tass, come on, jsut join for a little bit, to get it off the ground.

	28-04-2004 06:38									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

OK, OK...I'll take athens, so I can always ponder deep philisophical questions such as "Lenin....or Stalin?"

	28-04-2004 06:40									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

LENIN!!!!!!!!!!!

	28-04-2004 12:26									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oh, btw thanks for helping us get this off the ground tass

	28-04-2004 12:32									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Carthage, 325 b.c.

Log of the "Pytusis", cpt. Hanno
Day 11. We have just passed the pillars of Hercules. Still, we didn´t fall off the edge of the world. The land to the north looks promising. It´s not that fertile, but rich in metals and whool. Expedition Counsil decided to return to Carthage to report the discovery. I won´t return. Not yet...

Carthage
After the reports about the rich lands to the West, many citizen signed up for the colonization fleet. Twenty-seven galleys - fine, black phoenician warships - were loaded in the huge harbour of Carthage. Half of them were stuffed with building material and food. Well, not really food, but living chickens, pigs and other domesticated animals.
As the sun rose, the fleet set sail to the West. None of the 1300 colonists on board planned to ever return home...

Gades, Iberia, 323 b.c.
Life wasn´t that bad for the Gadese, though they still lacked some of the comforts of Carthage. But who really needs arenes? The people here had better things to do than attending horse races... Mining copper, for example. Lots of copper.
Only 14 months after the foundation of Gades, just west of the pillars of Hercules, the small colonial town had turned into a prospering harbour. Roughly 8,000 people claimed the title "Gadese", a good junk of them were working in the copper mines. Almost daily the huge Cartharginian trading ships entered the port, unloaded tons of wheat and whool, loaded metals and left for the capital again...
As of now, no natives have been spotted along the Iberian coast. Though some say there were savage tribes hiding in the mountains, ready to massacre anyone in sight. Though the same people also say they had slain the Calodonian boar themselves...

	28-04-2004 12:57									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Persia asks its people(mod) as to what their demands are to keep them fro mrevolting.

	28-04-2004 14:41									#30
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear Persia asks its people(mod) as to what their demands are to keep them fro mrevolting.

The area of the Persian empire hosts too many ethnic groups to name them. All of them want to break free in order to regain their former independence, but none of them is strong enough to really threaten the empire alone. However, a good part of the Persian army (which is the largest in the world) should always stay home, for a garrisoned province isn´t very likely to break apart.
Only the province of Egypt has managed to get out of Xerxes´ grip, and it now is independant. Maybe the Persian emperor shouldn´t let that go through... At least the Egyptian coastline is still under Persian control, but for how long?

OOC
When I went through several historical maps, I realized that Carthage at that time owned southern Spain, the Baleares, most of North Africa and Sardinia, even parts of Sicily. Why is it so small in your map, Foolish? Also Lydia is way too large in your map. two third of it should be Macedonia...

Map I made, with proposed expand of Carthage and Persia, Reworked Rome and Lydia, marked province borders in case of rebels or tribute and basically many changes to the original map. s it acceptable?

And another thing:
Could we perhaps change the army and navy statistics into real numbers? I´ve seen it work perfectly, and it would allow for much more things to do!
example:
"1st Persian Battlefleet" - Straits of Athens - 25 galleys
"Athens Defence Corps" - Athens - 3,500 hoplites; 800 archers
Also we could introduce some kind of currency, allowing for better control of orders. So, for example, you could build several ships AND train some troops in the same turn, while building a fort on the border... Each country would get its own income, which can fluctuate due to trade, metal deposits and captured/looted enemy wealth. Only the mods would be able to change income... While the players can encourage it by writing good stories.

Have a look at the SCC NES (link in my signature, "Age of Explorations") to see a working model of that kind...