27-04-2004 12:01									#1
	I'm not the greatest strategist.. Increase the size of your Attachments

Hey all. I'v been playing Civ on and off since Civ2 and have followed the series pretty close. I'v played Alpha Centauri, CtP, ToT, Civ3..Yet still I am only playing monarch-regent..guess it has something to do with that off-and on thing. Anyway, here is my current dilemma..what whould you do?

Scenario: I am the Ottomans, this is not Conquests, just PtW...I stumbled my way into a great opportunity..I was able to get Leonardo..I was able to get Chemistry first and sell it for about 180 gold per turn, which allowed me to do 100% science. I destroyed my only link to my iron and started chruning out horsemen. Last few turns before I discover military tradition I set science back down. That way I have enough gold, to convert thnx to Leo..about 40 horsemen into Sipahi. Most civs are just now getting a few musketmen...

The Targets *Ahem!* I mean neighbors:

Vikings: My Eastern Brothers..The most powerfull nation currently..there -are- others larger..but they didn't bother developing their cities. The vikings have a huge, well developed republic. They also..have been my allys..our nations are so close we grow into each other. There is even a culture war going on in my southeastern corner. (I will win..oh yes...) They have ooodles of Berzerks crisscrossing my country to attack various places.

My Summary: Very very rich, Close, tempting target..but very very strong..We are close allys..so the diplomatic reprecussions would be hard...
_________________________________

The Spanish: Pompous, large, and barely a neighbor. THey are north of the Vikings and only our most remote corners touch.

Summary: Unknown *but guessed small* army however would create very removed addition to my empire.
_________________________________

Egypt: Far to the north over thick mountains, they attacked me once. I was unable to take anything with a medi inf horde..they skirmed it to death. Unfortunately very far removed and hard to attack thanks to mountains. Still quite large, similiar to me in size.

Summary: No diplomatic reprecussions at all for attacking..decent spoils if taken but they are in a tough posistion and are fairly far away thanks to mountain chain.
_________________________________


Greeks and Arabs: Arabs attacked me early on, I swordmen'd them to death nearly, beating htemback to their capital..the greeks grew over them like some nasty green moss..

Summary: Easy to take, close by, but unfortuantely they are Poorly developed and have alot of trade routes with alot of my friends..as well, the Arabs have a RoP agreement with me..The diplomatic rep would be harsh..
_________________________________

Those are my choices..SO, who would you Roll over with two massive stacks of Early Sipahi? All of the nations I could defeat utterly except maybe the Vikings, they have -alot- of Zerks running around..+ our borders intertwine.

Interesting Dillema huh? What would you do..?

	27-04-2004 20:32									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Vikings: My Eastern Brothers..The most powerfull nation currently..there -are- others larger..but they didn't bother developing their cities. The vikings have a huge, well developed republic. They also..have been my allys..our nations are so close we grow into each other. There is even a culture war going on in my southeastern corner. (I will win..oh yes...) They have ooodles of Berzerks crisscrossing my country to attack various places. My Summary: Very very rich, Close, tempting target..but very very strong..We are close allys..so the diplomatic reprecussions would be hard...

Are you CURRENT allies? What I mean is do you have an active alliance with them against another civ? Also, do you have trade deals active with them?

If the answer to either is yes, there will be diplomatic repercussions to attacking them. If the answers are no, then there won't be (aside from small attitude changes, which is *not* about your reputation for trustworthyness).

Frankly, I'd hit the Vikes and put a Forbidden Palace there.

With 40+ Siphai (I might go for more), Berserks shouldn't be much of an issue. They've only got a 2 defense.

Make sure you've got some ships to knock out approaching Viking galleys, though, or you may lose a coastal city or two.

-Arrian

	27-04-2004 22:34									#3
	Support Apolyton

I concur with Arrian. The Vikings are tempting for several reasons. They're well-developed, close enough to be a productive addition and they're the current #1. Make sure to hit them as hard a possible in the first few turns, though, since they'll get a GA the first time a Berserk takes out one of your defenders. I don't know how well the AI uses them amphibiously, but as Arrian said, you definitely would rather fight a galley or caravel at sea than the guys it's carrying in your cities. Be sure and target any resources or luxuries you currently depend on them for.

	27-04-2004 23:49									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am not a great strategist either, so maybe my advice will have some value to you.

Two factors affect my war decisions. (Beyond the basic "Am I big enough?")

One: Do I have any deals going with the opponent? Declaring war during deals does make you a world pariah and should be avoided if you are doing anything other than a "I'll take you all on!" campaign. If you do have deals, find out how long they are. (F4, then details tab) If your deal is short enough, use the delay to make a few more units for your attack squads. Reinforcements are always handy, as long as your're not letting the opponent build up a collection of the latest defense unit. If the deal has way too many turns, find another opponent to attack. If you have enough production, while attacking a weak oppponent build up a surplus of offense unit (in this case, Sipahi, good stuff!!) and have them ready to attack when the deal finally times out.

Two: What do I have to gain? Land area can create production. That's an obvious consideration. I also look for luxuries I don't have. If, during a war, I can hook up yet another luxury, it helps keep my people happier during the war, and even during the peace afterward. Strategic resources are also good considerations. Even if you don't need the stuff, if you can deny it to the opponent, the power of any retaliation will be less. If I am doing a limited war, I will use such items as target goals. "I can take this much and then call for peace."

From what you describe, I would want to pick on the Vikings, dragging in whatever war partners I could. If they are the biggest, they need trimming. If they have any good stuff you covet, make that a priority. As was mentioned, if you do hit the Vikings, hit them fast and hard. They will get a GA somehow and if they have less cities around to take advantage of the GA, so much the better for you.

	27-04-2004 23:51									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes Vikes and that they are close means it will be easier to defend the new land. Enlist Spain to prevent the vikes from doing so or Spain from coming in on their own.

Anyway it sounds like you need to move up a level or go to C3C. It seems that C3C is like an increase in level.

	28-04-2004 05:42									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If I can't be hairy, smelly, wear furs, have tattoes on my face, and carry an axe the size of garbage can lid... then NOBODY ELSE SHOULD EITHER!!

Take'em down. As suggested, do it diplomatically cleanly, but DESTROY the Scandies!! :doitnow:

	28-04-2004 07:43									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

eris made a good point. Look to see who owns what luxuries, especially ones you don't have. If the Greeks or Arabs have a luxury you'd like to own, I say attack them first! Like takin' candy from a baby...

Otherwise, attack the Vikings to reduce any possible future threat. Personally, I don't like close neighbours being too powerful. Make sure you protect those Sipahi with muskets whenever they're out in the open. Their weak defense makes them vulnerable to counter-attack. (I speak from personal experience. )

	30-04-2004 01:12									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I always find smacking your most powerful rival at the first opportunity can save you a whole heap of trouble later in the game. If they get their noses ahead of you and then get a GA you could be in trouble, so go in now and go in hard

	30-04-2004 07:54									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Being around the difficulty of the accused, , I can tell you that it seems the regent-monarch mark is just about where the AI bonuses kick in, and you end up doing the weird strats like going all cash to trade for techs to keep up, rather than go all tech and fall behind
It would appear the higher part of the game is full of this...I guess the style of 'play' for those levels just has to be your thing...
Some love it, some hate it. Time to find out

	30-04-2004 11:35									#10
	LoL Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I didn't attack the vikes because of two reasons:

I had trade deals with them

I had RoP agreement with them.

And I was wrong on my number of sipahi..not 40..27..sure seemed like alot to me though. They, had I'd say 3 stacks of 10 Zerks each crisscrossing my land, supported by pikes.

So I just kept my nose clean and rolled over Greece..then Arabia..when my RoP with Arabia ran out. I used my industrious workers to turn Greco-arab land into something usefull fairly quick. I -really- wish I had taken the VIkings though. Why? Cuzz after I acidentally made peace with a enemy while we were under Mutal Protection..He went from Gracious to Furious in a flat sec..its all I can do to keep him locked in with RoP's. Most other civs are either Furious or Annoyed with me...Oops. HaHa! Bet I'd be a great mediator in Iraq.

Guess who attacked me though? Those stupid spaniards..I took 3 citys in two turns from them..LoL. It gave me a luxury so I am happy. I am now prepared to do what I should have done long ago..take out the vikes. BUt they are trully strong now..They got Inf and Arty..so do I..so I gotta wait for tanks. Sipahi are great for takeing poorly defended citys but it would just be a slaughter to try their +12 size heavily defended cities..

Ah well, next time maybe? lol

	30-04-2004 11:44									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Regent is the level where no bonus is given to human or AI.

	01-05-2004 01:14									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sounds like a good game. Post the save on here so people can have a look at it, its the easiest way for people to develop their own ideas.

	01-05-2004 01:41									#13
	Suffering from ads?

Ok, MOST of the AI tricks aren't on Regent
Some of it's more generic dirty tricks like map-reading hold true always...of course. And 1 to 1.3 is NOT a fair trade ratio

	01-05-2004 07:13									#14
	Erm Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

How would I post the save? o.0

Yeah, I like regent because the AI dosen't get any blatant cheats. I can usually stay a tech ahead of the AI at this level. Its still gives me a good challenge. Like right now..Most of the world has declared war on me. Babylonians did..then 'inspired' the spanish to attack me again..whom were allied with the russians..who then attacked me..and inspired the Vikings to attack me..Fighting them won me two more enemys in the form of England and Carthage..And you gotta understand none of these nations are 'small' cept for carthage.

I'v been tearing apart every enemy that enters my land at this point..Spanish never even got to touch my border city with them, artillery ate their Inf horde..They retreated lol. Railroads are usefull for shuffleing my artillery horde about..

English cavalry charged my northern front..but they didn't attack anything..just sorta stopped their. Sipahi swarmed them accordingly...Bab's haven't given me a prob since I bribed Egypt, Carthage and Rome to attack them...THey initially took some of my far away holdings from Persia's ruin..

And the Vikings? Well..we skirmished for awhile..I tokk one of his outrigger citys..all the while readying for a invasion. It is running along the southern coast..bombardment via a dozen Ironclads..+ artillery..followed by my brand new tanks..mopped up by cavalry. That style Earned two large citys in one turn. Only stopped since the next city on the list is to far to be attacked in one turn by my tanks.

Crazy. lol

Its to bad, this game has been consumeing -all- of my time.

	01-05-2004 11:32									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You open the post reply as normal, not the quick reply.

The add a few words and use the browse button to attach the save. It need to be less than 500K, so do not use the autosave or zip it.

Attachment: here.jpg
This has been downloaded 111 time(s).

	01-05-2004 23:17									#16
	Remove this text

Ok, here is a shot of it then. This is my current status.

Attachment: themap.jpg
This has been downloaded 103 time(s).

	03-05-2004 20:37									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There was one more advantage to takeing the Arabs/greeks on. It gave me access to my next weak neighbor, germany, that controlled a VERY important chokepoint. Of course I declared war and gained my chokepoint *look at map* and a city on the other continent along the coast ontop of a needed luxury.

I cannot belive how important this city has been. Munich..it lets my navy finnaly pass into that ocean seperateing the continents into 2/3's. It gives me access to all my hated enemys on the 1/3 continent. I may not get the resources and money I could had I took viking-land. I did gain a strategic port of call.

	03-05-2004 23:01									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That's a really interesting map, is it computer generated?

Looks like at least large size too, maybe huge.

I have found that if you don't take out a couple of civs fairly early, you could be in for a tough road later.

With that size map though, you're kind of limited. You would have to (early on) decide on some strategic borders and settle on them for a while. That western chokepoint (Munich?) would be one of them; I would have REXed out that far if possible.

In the north, all of that mixmatch between you and the Egyptians I would make all Turk. Sometimes I like buffer states but not later in the game unless Egypt was super powerful.

The comment above about "trimming" the hedge (a/k/a Oscillation War) is a good one. Early and mid game, if you can cut down your powerful opponents and make them weaker then do it, it will save your you-know-what later in the game, especially on higher difficulty levels.

Trim them down, make them vassal states; you don't have to take all of their cities, just enough to make sure they never challenge you for #1 again.

Just some comments from me. Again, that's a really interesting game map!

	04-05-2004 06:42									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Its Large, I decided against Huge since I am not that good a REXer.

Thanks for your advice btw. The very first Civ I knocked down was not by choice. The arabs declare war about the same time I got Iron...

Ha ha.

Anyway, The germans obviously got that chokepoint area first, and held it for a long time.

The nice thing about having everyone furious at you..you can pick and choose wars as you wish..they almost alway have someone within your border (near that point) just demand they remove them. They'll declare war, garanteed, even if I have a army and a half of tanks waiting right on their border.

About the Map..oh Its nice, computer generated too. LoL. Its Pangea, Warm, dry, 5 billion. I was going for a Tatoonie and got me a Green Mile...It makes life hard since you have sooo many borders..but I solved that...

Attachment: munich.jpg
This has been downloaded 65 time(s).

	05-05-2004 03:28									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

that's a pretty nice Stack of Death ya have there..
heheh

You seem to have trimmed down the Vikings pretty well too, based on your last screenshot. I don't usually go for Pangea maps personally, I guess I did too many of those in Civ or Civ2. I'm about to go play a Byzantine game on 80% water and see who I can fry with my Dromons...l8r