29-04-2004 01:28									#61
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The guy's laguage is good, but the substance is ****, and a big fat failure.

Why is it, despite your protestations otherwise, that it appears that your arguements around substance are merely arguments around viewpoint.

	29-04-2004 01:29									#62
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Why is it the debate about the crap paper has lasted longer than the crap paper did?

	29-04-2004 01:30									#63
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Because its an environmental thing. Something that won't biodegrade.

	29-04-2004 01:53									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Why is it, despite your protestations otherwise, that it appears that your arguements around substance are merely arguments around viewpoint.

What arguements? He makes many statements. The only halfway arguement he ever makes deals with the nature of natural selection, and there I don't think he did enough to back his view that somehow human logging is part of the process. One would simply ask, if the Spotted Owl is so poor a creature, why it lasted in it's natural environment (as opposed to e new artifical one developed in a very short time by man) long enough to meet loggers. But our brilliant wrter fails to answer that one.

The only reason anyone defended this paper was becuase of the views presented.

	29-04-2004 04:44									#65
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quote: Originally posted by GePap For example, one person used the word "filmic" FILMIC! Its CINEMATIC for god's sake!

'Filmic' is in the dictionary. It might not be the best word, but you can't blame someone for using it.

Before you all get infuriated, take into account that 'filmic' exists in many other languages, and that it might just have intoxicated English.

	29-04-2004 14:35									#66
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I think a better start for this paper would have been:

"Spotted owls are stupid. Throw rocks at them."

	29-04-2004 14:45									#67
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Well, I've marked thousands of university papers and I would have loved to have had this as an example of a bad paper. Really bad papers are worse than this one, which redeems itself by being hilarious.

The whole topic is stupid anyway. I mean, people complain about philosophy assignments, but writing about the foundations of morality or abortion rights is infinitely more interesting than writing about some butt**** owl that no one gives a stuff about. About the only thing worse are the papers that biology students have to write about diverse types of goo or that psych students have to write about torturing mice.

What would I do? Laugh, and tell him to write it again.

	29-04-2004 14:50									#68
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I just remembered, about six or seven years ago a student in one of my classes submitted a philosophy test which was a bit like this. I think the student just hated the course. Anyway, he submitted a five page rant that had nothing to do with the questions. It said things like:

"Socrates is basically an ugly, annoying old ****."

"Who does he think he is? Surely the citizens of Athens have better things to do than be annoyed by this geriatric arsehole. Good on them for putting him to death, the boring bastard."

"All the Greeks were child molesters. How the hell can we take Socrates' morality serious when he's taking it out on little boys."

"Who gives a **** about arguments?"

I actually sympathised with some of these views.

	29-04-2004 15:08									#69
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As an academic paper, give it an F for lack of logic, knowledge and substantiation. As a rant, maybe worth a B. I've seen better here.

	29-04-2004 15:43									#70
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I like the paper. I wrote some stuff in the same spritit when I was at university.

I had a German teacher who was both green-freak and feminazi and embedded her political views in her education. We had to translate sentences like these to German:

quote: It is right to protest against nuclear power. Men should change diapers on their children

So when we was asked to write an essay about environmentalism, I wrote about how to achieve a cleaner environment by building more nuclear power stations. I passed.

In another class I attended out of curiosity but did not need for my M.Sc degree or the career I planned, I decided to make an attempt on the exam anyway. It was my last exam of the year, the sun was shining outside, and the party weekend of the year was awaiting. One exam question was to briefly draw a solid waste incineration plant for a large city, in such a way that it would fulfil the EU environmental laws. I took out my coloured highlighter pens and drew a large bonfire, then drew arrows to the smoke stack and described the chemical components of the smoke (POM, PAH etc). I also pointed out that if the wind is right, the pollution fallout would end up in Russia, thus outside EU. I did not pass.

	29-04-2004 18:15									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Why is it, despite your protestations otherwise, that it appears that your arguements around substance are merely arguments around viewpoint.

GePap,

Your arguements that thepaper is crap and that is deserves to fail in no way addresses the intention of the OP. Which was to say it was humorous. Your attempt to diss the paper on academic grounds belies IMO your attempt to discredit it on terms of viewpoint over 'substance'.

	29-04-2004 18:22									#72
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Where did I write formal debate, numbnuts?

You said:

quote: What if it's a persuasive speech for Speech class?

If its for a university level speech class then its formal debate. That paper is not a good example of formal debate.

	29-04-2004 18:27									#73
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Ollie: But that you didn't pass is just because you're a victim of the communist conspiracy that rules the educational system.

	29-04-2004 18:53									#74
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Not really. I passed the German class because I stayed on the topic and wrote in decent German (despite letting the commie teacher taste her own medicine). I failed the Environmental Technology exam because I didn't study enough and didn't care (because I didn't need that class for my degree or planned career). Only lamers blame their own failures on some conspiracy.

	29-04-2004 18:56									#75
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That's a pretty broad definition of debate.

	29-04-2004 19:38									#76
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God Damn! You people will debate anything!

	29-04-2004 20:04									#77
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No we won't.

	29-04-2004 20:06									#78
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* DinoDoc points to this thread and rests his case

	29-04-2004 20:16									#79
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Dear Boshko,
Still, two different things.

A persuasive speech is when an individual attempts to persuade.
No one else particularly says anything.


A debate, whether between individuals or panels, is an exchange of differing viewpoints.
Unless one is talking to oneself, this requires more than one person.


GOT IT !?!?

	29-04-2004 20:26									#80
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc * DinoDoc points to this thread and rests his case

No you don't.

There, case made.

	29-04-2004 20:26									#81
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Slow: Like I said before. You've never participated in formal debate have you?

	29-04-2004 20:29									#82
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Yes, Boshko, I have.
Apparently you've not given a persuasive speech.

	29-04-2004 20:29									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi No you don't. There, case made.

Thank you. Now admit your error and move along.

	29-04-2004 20:59									#84
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What error? The "No we won't" post was meant to be the same joke.

	29-04-2004 21:01									#85
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* DinoDoc wonders if you can tell when people are playing along

	29-04-2004 21:04									#86
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* Solomwi wonders how starting yet another pointless debate about not debating everything wasn't going along with DinoDoc's playing along.

	29-04-2004 21:06									#87
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DinoDoc's head explodes

	29-04-2004 21:07									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe GePap, Your arguements that thepaper is crap and that is deserves to fail in no way addresses the intention of the OP. Which was to say it was humorous. Your attempt to diss the paper on academic grounds belies IMO your attempt to discredit it on terms of viewpoint over 'substance'.

He handed the paper in to be graded. He recieved a failing grade. EST at least said the paper should have been given a passing grade mainly for the reasons you have stated. You and him are both wrong, in so far as the paper deserved to fail and is a poor paper.

As I have said, it's an OK comedy piece, and he could have always sent it to be published in the campus paper, or whatever. BUt hand it in to a teacher-and you deserve to fail.

As for discrediting his view-as a piece of comedy, it does not even deserve to be discredited, anymore than a Onion piece needs to be discredited.

	29-04-2004 21:07									#89
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quote: DinoDoc's head explodes

My work here is done.

	29-04-2004 21:08									#90
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If the professor put it out on the internet, the student should have gotten a D.