04-10-2000 23:21									#1
	Ultimate Diplogame Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Okay, I saw a thread that proposed a diplogame on the "Gigamap" file, which would be nice but only because it is a diplogame, and I find these games the most stimulating and productive civilization games there are. For one I believe a diplogame captures the essence of Sid Meier's intentions when he made the game, which was a game based on War yes, but not one where war is the game, or is the meaning of the game.

In the Ultimate diplogame the first thing would be that we would create new units, I think a few that would be applicable and useful would be units such as the aforementioned refugee, another thing would be some major changes in game applications and a possible extension or addition to the tech tree utilized in the game. This is far from happening, an ideal time would be in the winter, not only would people be freed from school and things like that but we would also have time from now until then to plan this out, as far as units go and events, obviously this would need to be a scenario. I am definantly in agreement with changes in events.txt, for example I believe when there is a revolution in a country there should be "loyalist" units that crop up as barbarian units that you would have to destroy as would be the result of any revelution, another thing could be an aggression factor, for example if a civilization changes from monarchy to republic, there would be aggression stemming from other monarchies (this may not be utilized in a diplogame now that I think about it). So I am talking the ultimate diplogame here on the ultimate map, with ultimate events and abilities and units, this would be a very unique diplogame and would require the best posters, players and thinkers, we are going to create a very unique game here with new applications and it is definantly a challenge and is definantly a history making event as far as Civ2 goes, and the Civ2 "community."

Some ideas I have been thinking of:

1) UN Units: When a civilization creates the United Nations, when civilizations declare war on eachother I believe the owner of the UN should have a unit which ignores zones of control and is a "NONE" unit, this unit would be created in the capital of the civ with the UN and would be used by the owner of the UN in order to control the war, I am not sure whether this is possible but it is a good idea.

2) Loyalist Units: A loyalist unit should be created when a nation changes governments, and should have differant abilities and attacks and so forth, for example when a civilization changes from communism to democracy or whatever, loyalist units could be randomly created around the cities, I also don't know if this is possible but a loyalist unit would add reality to a revolution, which in civ happen without consequence.

3) I also believe the idea of a refugee comming from a city is a good idea, I forget who proposed it, but when a civilization conquers another civ's city, or uses a bomber is a better idea, refugees should arise from the city who would either act as barbarian units, or units of the civ who's city was bombed, a barbarian refugee could be better as they would be random units that are not under any nation's control.

4) In this diplogame, while it may be ideal for civs to have contact ability from the start of the game, I think it would be more realistic if you could only chat with the kings you have contacted, not only does this lend credence to reality, but it also serves to culturize the civs, for example as civs in Europe would have quicker and longer contact with other civs in Europe, they would have less with the civs of the orient, and thus the cultures or ideals set up during the game would be starkly differant.

5) Aggression should be made amongst the various Fundamentalist nations, to add the crusade aspect to the game.

Again, these are simple ideas, and I know this is a long post with lots of crap in it, but if anyone is seriously interested in devising a very unique and worthwhile game, who is willing to play at least once a week and provide their owns subs when needed, should respond to this post so we can get our creative juices flowing, I think this would be the ultimate testament to civilization ever, as we would be doing something for the game and creating a very fun environment for those of us who are familiar with the game.

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"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill


One Love.

	05-10-2000 02:45									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

There are a few problems with your proposed ideas.

For one.....there aren't really triggers available that would propt units to appear when you wanted them to, like when a bomber attacks, or a revelution, etc......

Even if there were, there would be no way to judge the strength of civs at a particular time. A triggered event could wipe a civ out, knock them from competivit play, or do nothing at all to impare the player. Also there would be no way to keep players from interfering with events, by placing units on spwaning squares, or moving their capital, etc.

Plus, think of all the UN's wars fought throughout time. With the exception of Korea and Vietname which you might argue the UN was fighting "Communism" etc.......the UN only interferes with the little serbias, somilias, and such around the world. Such small disorganized countries don't really exist in civ2, because there are only 7 civs........any civ with real military power would not put up with the UN for a momment.......


Your idea's are not without merit, some are some I've even had before, but they are probably better suited for a new game then a diplo mod for civ2......

Some ideas for diplo games have been made before, like increased ship movement and power.......

I would suggest making units COST less, but also less powerful. The idea being, its easier to raise an army, but its more difficult to maintain large armies. Maybe a -1 offensive power from all units would be in order, defenses should also cost alot more......but thats just my opinion.