02-05-2004 23:57									#1
	What should the PAL polls ask? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Let start about a 24 hour discussion here with the goal being we have polls up tomorrow afternoon.

I DO NOT want to discuss what to do about PAL here, just how to word the polls.

My best guess and to keep it simple would be:

Do we ally with PAL?

Yes
No

Then run an explanation of what that alliance would mean.

Tech Cooperation
Choke then kill CDG after Republic.
Allies for the game.

Now we could start tying in CDG, and or nuetrality But I think anyway ask the PAL alliance question first, if it fails then ask the should we strenghten our relationship enter and alliance with CDG?

And maybe throw the neutrality one in that poll.

Im kind of tired today and chasing kids around trying to get them to do homework.

If someone has a better idea or any additions to the polls please post them here. Im kind of running low on brain power right now.

(Ya I know you smarta$$es, so what else is new right? )

Thanks

	03-05-2004 01:43									#2
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I'm not sure what the polls should ask at this point, but I just want to say that I think we should switch our research this turn. Most likely we will be getting IW from PAL in a 5 turns. We have 9 left to do it ourselves. This is a descision that should be made soon, and I just wanted to make sure that people knew that wether or not to switch should have the highest priority on our agenda.

	03-05-2004 01:43									#3
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Questions.

	03-05-2004 02:36									#4
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Yes to switching

More importantly, I agree that should be polled ASAP.


After that, I think the poll should be just what was suggested:
Ally with PAL yes/no/abstain (if our constitution requires it, not sure)

Details can be left to other polls if needed.

	03-05-2004 05:57									#5
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Only one question - in a yes/no/banana format.

Ally with PAL for this game or not?

List here all the specifics:
-Full Tech Trading
-Military alliance against CDG (post our Republic Deal)
-Allowing units to explore eachothers lands (post alliance) or map sharing as appropriate (if we get that far)
-Wonder agreements (specifics worked out later, but they are good with us having Zeus).
-Probable Lux exchanges (has not yet been discussed, but is a natural extension of our discussions).

Please note, just because we ally with them doesn't mean that we trust them. We will have to guard ourselves appropriately.

	03-05-2004 14:43									#6
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That looks good. When I get home from work in a few hours I will set up this poll.

I WILL SET IT UP TO GAGE WHERE APOLYTON OPINON LIES ON THIS ISSUE. Not an official poll.

	03-05-2004 15:25									#7
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Sounds good. Specifics would need to be worked out after, and separately voted on, I think. At least with a green/red light we could properly discuss options with them/tell them 'no thanks' knowing we could at least tell them that we had voted yes/no to allying, and show we aren't indecisive, just democratic.

	03-05-2004 18:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal That looks good. When I get home from work in a few hours I will set up this poll. I WILL SET IT UP TO GAGE WHERE APOLYTON OPINON LIES ON THIS ISSUE. Not an official poll.

lNO! It needs to be an official poll, we owe them an answer in 5 turns, either we ally or we dont. Simple as that.


If we need time to discuss, analyze, dawdle, and talk this to deat, and we need more than 5 days, then we say no.

And we are dealing with Ladder, "We haven't made up our minds, or we are still talking about it", will be interpreted as: "NO, we dont want an alliance".

This needs to be official, and to make it easy for everyone if you are not sure just vote "NO".

	03-05-2004 18:16									#9
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Con... meet me in chat...

	03-05-2004 19:50									#10
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Don

I cant do mIRC at work, the firewall blocks it.

Im on AIM and MSN right now and my handles are in my profile.

Sorry I was on my way into work earlier.

	03-05-2004 20:40									#11
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Im thinking of an official poll like this:

Question: Do you want to ally with PAL?

1. Yes including all that the alliance entails.
2. No, we do not want an alliance
3. No, not right now but we would like to reevalute the idea sometime in the future.
4. Other post below
5. banana-abstain

I think this will satisfy the various opinions on this topic.

This way if someone is unsure, or they think we need more time to evaluate this they can vote number three.

But we need an official poll.

Im going to be pretty busy the next couple of hours, but sometime this afternoon (USA time) I intend to get this poll up and running.

72 hours duration.

	03-05-2004 22:04									#12
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The impression I got from PAL is that a vote for #3 is a no vote.

With them or against them.

Black or white.

Thats how it is with them.

	03-05-2004 22:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal The impression I got from PAL is that a vote for #3 is a no vote. With them or against them. Black or white. Thats how it is with them.

I personally agree a 100% but others may have a different opinion.

And this option has been expressed by at least a few in the last week.

So if someone really thinks we can say no and reevaluate later then can vote that way.

You and I got a pretty good idea that wont work. Ill even take it one step further and say Im pretty sure if we say anything other than yes. PAL is going to immediately give the same pitch to CDG. Im pretty sure MRex will jump on it.

After that it will be "See you guys on the end of a Viking Surfboard."

But thats just MHO.

	04-05-2004 03:44									#14
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Don't water down the poll by adding extra unviable options.

IMO stick with Yes, No, Abstain. Keep it simple, those who are truelly against an alliance right now should just vote no or abstain if the don't care.

A more important question (and hopefully one answered in our constitution.....which uh I guess we have :P).

If the vote is yes/no/abstain. Does yes win with 50 (+1)% of the vote, or if it has more votes than no?

Not that it is likely to matter this time. I don't personally feel this poll (even if it was watered down) is going to be all that close.

	04-05-2004 05:34									#15
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Don said something in chat last night that made me stop and think.

PAL is not a DemoGame team. With one or two exceptions their members are not DGers, but PBEMers. Long discussions and excessive wording of things like Constitutions (3A2C3 forever!) are alien to them, and they will likely take some time to learn how to cope with our slower community way of dealing with these games. We analyse to pieces, whereas they, by their very nature, will be impulse decision makers. 5 or so days to them (and in fact, to me), sounds like a huge amount of time to ask someone to consider an alliance, and why on Earth would we not have reached an answer by then?

Keep that in mind. We work slow, methodical and sim everything we can. They play. We will both have to get used to each others' styles, and so we have to compromise our usual (and usually essential) over-caution to not lose an opportunity.