04-05-2004 15:08									#1
	No Rubber on Stormia Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

GoW has 4, ND 2, even bloody Vox have better resources than Stormia, as they have 1 too. Can't see Legos, but they'll be OK in there for sure.

Just as well we're allying with GoW.

	04-05-2004 15:47									#2
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I commented back in the lacking-SP days how resources go in horizontal bands.

Well, the northern rubber band is basically GoWs's territory, and that's where Vox's is too. The central band accounts for ND's pair, and I would expect Lego would find their rubber in the Dye Fields - Forkmouth - Kloreep 'triangle'.

This might be worth bearing in mind when considering the assault.

Also, GoW won't have any oil. If we don't have any around Sandstorm then then we either recruit ND or bust.

	04-05-2004 15:51									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Final thought for now - it's expensive but some city espionage to open the map might be handy. We might even see their rubber.

Lego have Rep Parts, so GoW will be able to confirm that Lego has rubber.

	04-05-2004 16:06									#4
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euh, CH, how do you know we don't have rubber? has GoW told you, or has the new save arrived? I was thinking on one thing (but didn't had time to check it): we could be better off without RP for a while. Lego will undoubtedly go for the tech, and we don't need it soon. So, while not devaluating, we can build rifles instead of infs, and upgrade these.

I didn't analyse this thoroughly, it's more of an idea. I don't really have time to check it to the numbers in the Smith's thread...

Oh, and of course, we without rubber is not a good thing. Not good at all.

DeepO

	04-05-2004 16:07									#5
	Got spare money?

Oh, city espionage: we will need that later on, right now there is not much point. I would like to have a smalal amount set aside to check their coastal cities before invading so we know that we either can take 1 or 2 cities from the start.

DeepO

	04-05-2004 16:20									#6
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Yes, we have the save. Rep Parts will speed our workers in the remaining RR and foresting, and Lego have it anyway.

Are we giving Sci Meth to GoW for Rep Parts?

	04-05-2004 16:24									#7
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if Lego has it, there is no point in not accepting it, certainly not if we don't have rubber.

and as to Sci Met: I was more or less under the assumption that we already promised that to them, and that RP was a trade for Corp. However, we should tell then that while SM is theirs, we prefer to keep it for as long as possible, to keep Lego from gaining any advantage.

DeepO

	04-05-2004 17:40									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

crap

I hpoe this doesn't change the GS/GoW dynamic.....

arty's or bust I fear.

	04-05-2004 17:52									#9
	Got spare money?

Blah.

-Arrian

	04-05-2004 19:52									#10
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Another fine mess.

	04-05-2004 19:57									#11
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It's bleak, guys - especially long-term, but not unexpected. If we have oil, then as long as we're allied to Glory of Rubber we're OK.

If we'd had rubber but no coal - we'd have been dead meat. Better this way round, we live a bit longer at still get the chance to take a swing at Lego.

	05-05-2004 03:38									#12
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Jesu christo...

Good attitude, CH. This says to me: At home, dependent less on Rifles as defenders, and more on naval pickets. On Lego, depend on... Tanks. Lots o' Tanks.

	05-05-2004 06:41									#13
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No SP. No rubber. Two civs start on land mass.

What were we thinking by going with a random map and not recruiting someone to balance it?

	05-05-2004 06:53									#14
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither No SP. No rubber. Two civs start on land mass. What were we thinking by going with a random map and not recruiting someone to balance it?

This was the first Civ 3 MPDG so no one thought to do so.

Plus the game was started prematurely and without everything getting sorted out.

	05-05-2004 16:52									#15
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I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we didn't have any oil either. But we'll find out in a few turns.

DeepO

	05-05-2004 18:08									#16
	Got spare money?

We better have oil, or... or... um, I'll whine really loud!

-Arrian

	05-05-2004 18:42									#17
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I'd settle for oil, and the whole world's supply of Uranium...

At least our agreement with GoW should allow us to get a decent number of infantry on the board.

	05-05-2004 21:29									#18
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I've been thinking of that... once we're ready for our invasion, we're only going to be a few techs away from nukes... does anyone have any moral objection to nuke the world? We've got enough workers to deal with the polution

DeepO

	05-05-2004 21:36									#19
	Remove this text

I do have an objection to nuking the world just for the hell of it. That's a crappy thing to do.

If, however, we were to use nukes for a genuine tactical purpose, attempting to win the game, then fine by me.

-Arrian

	05-05-2004 22:17									#20
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Oh, of course, I was talking tactically. Something like building 20 ICBMs, and use them in one turn on one team, together with marines and paratroopers. Would it be possible to destroy a team in one turn?

DeepO

	05-05-2004 22:34									#21
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Mwahahahaaa, I know where all the future resources are.

	05-05-2004 22:36									#22
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bastard

	06-05-2004 00:44									#23
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DeepO:

20 ICBMs is a MASSIVE shield investment. Isn't that like 65 Modern Armor?

I could see building a low number, and using them to soften a coastal city prior to marine invasion, though.

-Arrian

	06-05-2004 00:45									#24
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Tactical nukes could also have defensive value: nailing an enemy stack of doom (naval, preferably).

I used to do that to the AI in CivII, when it would result in the total destruction of any unit in the radius of the blast. IIRC, in CivIII it doesn't always kill all the units, does it? Anyway, a tactical nuke or two could be really useful for homeland defense.

-Arrian

	06-05-2004 00:57									#25
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If we get nukes before Lego, we could use them to cut off Legos access to Uranium we will only need about 6-7 ICBMs

No rubber? No problem, since GOW want to attack Lego as much as we do.

If we get close to winning this game, then your reputations are going to be enhanced considerably (even though they are pretty big now).

	06-05-2004 01:08									#26
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Oh, I do not doubt that it is a massive investment, but keep in mind that 65 MA won't bring us far.

I was more or less joking with the 20 ICBMs, it would be cool if we somhow could take someone out in 1 turn. However, I do see us using tactical nukes, a lot actually. They can still fire from subs, right?

Uses are not only limited to killing SoDs (IIRC, a ICBM will destroy all troops in the tile targeted, 50% of the tiles right next to it. tacticals the same?), but also to soften up a force, and as Krill suggests to deny someone resources. Not only by targetting the resource it self, but for instance Lego is receiving 6 foreign lux, last time we checked. If we ICBM their capital, all tiles surrounding their capital will be pillaged, and their capital disconnected from all their other cities. The only city receiving those 6 lux (well, 5 by then, as we would be at war) would be Legopolis General chaos everywhere (well, until they can break into F1, and set their cities to entertainers, of course).

We won't have time to build nukes before we get to Lego, though. But maybe during the war we can.

DeepO

	06-05-2004 01:09									#27
	Remove this text

MA 120 shields
ICBM 500 shields

This is for C3C, not sure if PTW was the same.

	06-05-2004 01:16									#28
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TacNukes are 300 shields and can be loaded on subs. Not sure if they need to be nuke subs or not.

It will take about 4 ICBM's to wipe the city out and clear all its tiles. ICBM's of course have no range limit or load issues. The problem with them is that they cannot be moved from the city that creates them. This means they could be a target.

Tacs can be shuffled around to hide them. Everyone will know what cities are making ICBM's as they need lots of shields.

	06-05-2004 01:39									#29
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vmxa1, the 4 ICBM's for a city are for the pop, right? the first one pillages all tiles right next to it, or did I rememmber that wrongly? It's not that you use nukes or tacs everyday...

And indeed, the biggest problem with ICBMs is that if someone starts the ICBM war first, they can destroy the other parties ICBMs in the first turn. Or at least a big part of them. I prefer tacs myself, but just for availability, you need at least 2 ICBMs, to keep anyone from winning by space race.

DeepO

	06-05-2004 05:08									#30
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I almost feel like going back and re-playing that hellish modern era scenario that Vel (and you DeepO, right?) built.

Man, how intense if the game gets that far and we are still (meaningfully) in it...