05-05-2004 20:06									#31
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I must admit I never quite understood why our capitalists and libertarians find morally agreeable so many things from private interests, that they'll never accept from the State.

I can understand why Disney wouldn't want to publish Moore. I find it extreme that Disney bullies a daughter company on this topic. But I do fail to see why privately-made censorship is morally superior than publicly-made censorship

	05-05-2004 20:08									#32
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shuddup commie.

	05-05-2004 20:17									#33
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Excellent point, Spiffor. Their position is not consistent.

	05-05-2004 20:42									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor But I do fail to see why privately-made censorship is morally superior than publicly-made censorship

So according to your world view, a private enterprise has no right to exercise control over what they put out through their own company.

	05-05-2004 21:01									#35
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yes. Didn't you ever hear of regulation?

	05-05-2004 21:05									#36
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Interesting. Then why not have the government control all channels if you don't believe private enterprise should have any say over what they put out themselves and cut out the middleman.

	05-05-2004 21:09									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ah.. Ming... working the trolls . Short answer: Disney owns Miramax and has every right to decide what films get published under its label... and it doesn't want to piss off anyone, because, well, it's Disney.

Yep. Although the extra publicity should boost the movie's numbers, so if Eisner's capable of doing his job for the shareholders, he should get a good royalty deal for kicking it to an independent distributor, so Disney can reap the profit without reaping the political whirlwind.

	05-05-2004 21:10									#38
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you're jumping to extremes.

	05-05-2004 21:10									#39
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Spiffor: so basically those guys are hypocrits... got it

	05-05-2004 21:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel you're jumping to extremes.

No, I'm not.

	05-05-2004 21:12									#41
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edit: nevermind, he wasn't talking to me

	05-05-2004 21:14									#42
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I wasn't talking to you. I don't really care about your opinion anyway.

	05-05-2004 21:15									#43
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tell me something I don't know

	05-05-2004 21:16									#44
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yes you are. I claim that bussiness doesn't have the full and sole discretion on what it produces. You say that I claimed that it has none what soever.

	05-05-2004 21:16									#45
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this is just xposting madness

	05-05-2004 21:23									#46
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quote: I must admit I never quite understood why our capitalists and libertarians find morally agreeable so many things from private interests, that they'll never accept from the State.

Because they are fundamentally different. Put it to you this way, do you think that people should have the right to enter your home at any time they wish to hang out with you and put up GW Bush posters? It's the same thing with private companies not wishing to allow people they don't agree with to do things under their own label.

The state isn't allowed to express a preference on who it likes and doesn't like. The person is. It is what you get when living in a liberal society (ie, individual liberty of some sort).

	05-05-2004 21:25									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I must admit I never quite understood why our capitalists and libertarians find morally agreeable so many things from private interests, that they'll never accept from the State. Because they are fundamentally different. Put it to you this way, do you think that people should have the right to enter your home at any time they wish to hang out with you and put up GW Bush posters? It's the same thing with private companies not wishing to allow people they don't agree with to do things under their own label. The state isn't allowed to express a preference on who it likes and doesn't like. The person is. It is what you get when living in a liberal society (ie, individual liberty of some sort).

What bothers me is that Jeb Bush is threatening to cancel Disney's tax breaks in Florida because of this. Disney can do what it wants... sure... but what is wrong is what Jeb is doing.

	05-05-2004 21:27									#48
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quote: Disney can do what it wants... sure... but what is wrong is what Jeb is doing.

Hell must be freezing over. I agree with your 100%, Sava .

	05-05-2004 21:27									#49
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But... I thought you wanted to end Corporate Welfare???

	05-05-2004 21:28									#50
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT But... I thought you wanted to end Corporate Welfare???

subsidies are different from tax breaks (I think you are talking to me, right? )

	05-05-2004 21:30									#51
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Yet net effect is the same.

	05-05-2004 21:30									#52
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The corporation is not a person.

	05-05-2004 21:31									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Sava subsidies are different from tax breaks (I think you are talking to me, right? )

Just like "those aren't taxes, those are user fees" - right?

Cash in your pocket, or cash not out of your pocket that otherwise would be, all adds up the same no matter what label you put on it.

Unless you work for Andersen.

And no, I'm not talking to you.

	05-05-2004 21:33									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The corporation is not a person.

Legally, it is - it has distinct existence and ownership of assets and liabilities, and other legal powers (to sue or be sued, to enter into contracts) which are distinct and separate from any individual shareholder or employee.

	05-05-2004 21:35									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The corporation is not a person.

And so ends the debate regarding the shizoid behavior of corporations.

IIRC we had a thread not too long ago talking 'bout the immoral psychopathic personality disorder of corporations and that corps were held as individuals under the eyes of the law.

	05-05-2004 21:36									#56
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quote: Legally, it is - it has distinct existence and ownership of assets and liabilities, and other legal powers (to sue or be sued, to enter into contracts) which are distinct and separate from any individual shareholder or employee.

It isn't fully a person, Michael. unless you can own stock in people.

	05-05-2004 21:36									#57
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MTG - will you stop x-posting with me.

	05-05-2004 21:38									#58
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quote: It isn't fully a person, Michael.

But it legally is, and that is all that counts .

	05-05-2004 21:39									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: Legally, it is - it has distinct existence and ownership of assets and liabilities, and other legal powers (to sue or be sued, to enter into contracts) which are distinct and separate from any individual shareholder or employee. It isn't fully a person, Michael. unless you can own stock in people.

It isn't fully a person, but it is one for many legal purposes, and is recognized as such.

And yes, we used to be able to own stock in people, but that kinda went by the wayside a few decades back.

	05-05-2004 21:55									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Just like "those aren't taxes, those are user fees" - right? Cash in your pocket, or cash not out of your pocket that otherwise would be, all adds up the same no matter what label you put on it. Unless you work for Andersen. And no, I'm not talking to you.

that may very be the case, but still, in principle, giving tax payer money to corporations is different from taxing them less. Tax breaks, IMO, are a legitimate tool that the government can use to reward businesses... like say, for keeping jobs in America.

But that's beside the point. The point is, Disney is basically being extorted by Jeb Bush. And I have a problem with that. Even if it were Rush Limbaugh's movie we were referring to, I'd have a problem with it.

But as a MM fan, I'm not concerned all that much. That movie is going to make a lot of money and someone will step up and distribute it.