06-05-2004 05:55									#1
	Automated Formers Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Anyone here knows if its possible to make the automated formers make their work ONLY inside the squares near their home base? In my last game I wanted to give automation a try but the experience wasnt very good. I automate a former in a base to see it go to the other side of the continent to plant a forest then went to the other side to clean a fungus, then it goes to the other side to build a road and a mine and I´ve lost 30 turns of uselessness.

The same goes for sea formers. They only plant kelp farms and some mining platforms and sometimes a tidal harness or two. But the main problem is seeing those formers going away from their home base without actually improving it. Isnt that their work?

	06-05-2004 07:44									#2
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AFAIK, once you automate your formers, you're stuck with their decision.

Unfortunately, the former operators tend to be retarded and do dumba** things like build roads in every single square.

	06-05-2004 07:57									#3
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If you want the Former to only improve within the base, there are two automation options. There is an option labeled "Auto-improve Home base" (ctrl+shift+a). You're clearly using the Fully Automate Former option (cntrl+a). When you set it to Auto-Improve Home Base, the Former will always go back to the city from which it gets support, so always make sure that when you move the former to another base, you set the former's new home base.

	06-05-2004 08:29									#4
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Autoformers

	06-05-2004 11:18									#5
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Often, building roads all over is a good idea. Consider this: you have a rolling tile that you want to improve to a condensor-farm. If you have two formers there, they will burn two turns moving to the tile and burn two more moving off. A road would cost two turns and then the formers would only use 1/3 movement point each leaving.

Now consider if you moved one former there ahead of time. It burns a turn moving onto the tile and spends two more building a road. Now the second former moves on to speed up the condensor, and only uses 1/3 movement point. Both formers only use 1/3 movement point each leaving.

In general, if you gang-form tiles, roads provide an immediate return on investment, plus the continuing benefit of having a road there. Even a single former on a flat tile should build a road, for no immediate cost or benefit, but for a continuing benefit.

	06-05-2004 20:51									#6
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Thanks Synteth and Chaos, since I´m not used to automation options, I really didnt pay attention in the option autoimprove home base, I´mm use it know (I´m using 150+ sea formers in a game, I dont want to spend two hour a turn giving orders, thats too boring). But another question here... its possible to make sea formers stop building the mining platforms? I dont have any option like this in the automation preferences. The only alternative I´m using now its editing the alpha.txt and disable the "M" option in sea squares. But in the other hand, factions controlled by the AI cant build then either... any idea?

	06-05-2004 21:01									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan AFAIK, once you automate your formers, you're stuck with their decision. Unfortunately, the former operators tend to be retarded and do dumba** things like build roads in every single square.

I do dumbass things like build roads in every square. Sure, early on, you're more interested in clear paths to and from bases, if you use a heavy terraforming strategy, wouldn't the extra terraforming value you get from having multiple formers at work improve your overall rate of improvement? I think this may warrant a roading habits thread....

	06-05-2004 21:03									#8
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Oh, and as for automated formers, I find that the most efficient way to automate your former is to move him into the base you want improved, then hit shift-D, and select YES. That way you're no longer bothered with controlling the former, and he contributes to the base he was last in.

	06-05-2004 21:19									#9
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In the Automation Options there are some options to limit what the auto-formers can do. There are options like raise and lower land, built borehloes, condensers, etc. but I don't remember if standard forming or sea forming was included.

	07-05-2004 07:55									#10
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they are:

• plant forests
  
• raise/lower terrain
  
• build condensers, boreholes, etc.
  
• remove fungus
  
• build sensors
  
• build roads and tubes

	07-05-2004 14:32									#11
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raise/lower terrains doesnt work for sea formers, In my game that option is "off" but there are a lot of then right now raising sea squares

	07-05-2004 21:31									#12
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Frankly, the ONLY tasks I would even CONSIDER letting a former do automatically is plant forest or clear fungus. Sadly, they show some of the worst judgement ever in path selection, and wind up wandering over creation, wasting turn after turn.

Upshot: NEVER automate formers. You're litterally better off disbanding them.

	08-05-2004 01:58									#13
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yeah the AI of formers is really bad, but I have 163 of them right now, so the tradeoff pays its bills, even with all that problems (give each individual order is too boring and I´m wasting time with this)

	08-05-2004 03:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by CEO Aaron Upshot: NEVER automate formers. You're litterally better off disbanding them.

Disband a unit that should be clean? Any formers I have no interest in keeping get assigned fungus duty. The worm take care of obselete formers nicely. Also nice to armor them up and send them into enemy territory to destroy terraforming

	08-05-2004 04:11									#15
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I wish that there were more sophisticated ways to specify some rules/a policy for autoforming ie:

@Terrain X do Y
or Have Wonder/Tech X , @ Terrain Y do Z

If we had modable AI like that, I think SMAC/X would be so much more replayable.

	08-05-2004 04:45									#16
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Well if nothing else AI wouldn't be so stupid as to put a farm down on arid tiles .

Yeah, some scripting of former behavour would rock. Wouldn't be that hard to implement either.

	08-05-2004 08:01									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sikander spacing?
I suppose that's easy enough to program.