06-05-2004 15:50									#1
	conscription question Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've noticed that in large cities, when you conscript, the build time for items in the queue is sometimes reduced. Why is this?

	06-05-2004 16:32									#2
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You loose population when you conscript, and less population means less production. Also, people might turn unhappy if you conscript (especially if you do it a lot)

	06-05-2004 16:49									#3
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conscription costs population.

a reduced population will result in less tiles being worked by your citys inhabitants. thus they will generally produces less shields after conscription, and depending on the number of sheilds per turn lost it will usually result in build times increased.

i dont know the number of citizens lost due to conscripting a unit, personally i never use it.

however its not as simple a matter as ive stated above.
corruption plays its part, a city which loses lots of shields to waste (the red shields) wont notice the drop in population as much.

also citys sized greater than 21 ( well 21 + the number citizents consctription costs) wont lose productive citizens.

also its posible to conscript a unit and not lose any production, but this depends on the tiles in ur city area. you would need to move citizens from one tile to another. but no matter what you will lose something , be it shields or food, u will always lose commerce. however this comes under micromanagement, and very much depends on ur personal taste

	06-05-2004 17:10									#4
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quote: Originally posted by anteos I've noticed that in large cities, when you conscript, the build time for items in the queue is sometimes reduced. Why is this?

Neither of you guys addressed the right question - the build time DECREASES. I honestly don't know why that would be, unless you are actually pop-rushing rather than conscripting (the buttons are right next to each other).

	06-05-2004 17:14									#5
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MrWhereItsAt is right. The build time for large items such as hospitals etc decrease. This does not always happen, but tend to happen in the modern era in cities with large populations.

	06-05-2004 22:00									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by anteos MrWhereItsAt is right. The build time for large items such as hospitals etc decrease. This does not always happen, but tend to happen in the modern era in cities with large populations.

Assuming you're not conscripting and then disbanding the conscript for shields, the only explanation that comes to mind is that the loss of a citizen causes the city governor to reallocate the laborers among available tiles -- moving a laborer from a coast to a mined mountain for instance would cause the city to produce less food and commerce but more shields (possibly decreasing build times). Similarly, it's possible (I suppose) that the conscription reduces the population enough to trigger WLTKD in the city and therefore reduce waste (lost shields) -- I'd think that the unhappiness caused by conscription would offset any "net happiness gain" from reduced population, but never bothered to play with it.

Catt

	06-05-2004 22:22									#7
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I agree with Catt! That has happened to me a lot. Everytime i draft, the governator ( ) moves citizens around which often gives you more productive cities then before - at the expense of food of course.

	07-05-2004 01:41									#8
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WLTKD was my first thought, too, Catt, but even if draft unhappiness didn't negate it, it wouldn't be noticed until the next turn. I may be reading too much into the question, but it sounds to me like he's seeing it in the city screen immediately. My money's on the governor.

	07-05-2004 13:20									#9
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Thanks for your ideas. It does happen in the city screen. But generally all the tiles are being used because the city is so large. Also wltkd doesn't have time to happen, it happens as soon as I conscript and I don't disband the conscripted unit.

I'll try and get some screen shots.

	08-05-2004 08:56									#10
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Screenshots are a great idea, as well as a save game. Could you post one, tell us which city to go to etc? Also please can you tell us what version of the game you are using?

I agree with the WLTKD normally not showing up until the next turn. It's possible I suppose that Conscription forces a recalculation negating that idea though.

There's so many things I just haven;t used in this game - like Conscription. My populations are just too precious!

	10-05-2004 03:30									#11
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I too tend to avoid conscription, but an evil use just occured to me - draft foreign citizens in recent conquests! Decreases the time necessary to starve it down to size one.

	12-05-2004 05:40									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist I too tend to avoid conscription, but an evil use just occured to me - draft foreign citizens in recent conquests! Decreases the time necessary to starve it down to size one.

Only if you are mobilized, which reduces your options if you don't want, or can't get, peace. Hardly a reason to mobilize just to draft foreign citizens.

	16-05-2004 13:27									#13
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I believe you can only draft if you have a majority of your own citizens in the city.

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Only if you are mobilized, which reduces your options if you don't want, or can't get, peace. Hardly a reason to mobilize just to draft foreign citizens.

Are you saying you can draft foreign citizens when they have the majority if you are in mobilization?

	16-05-2004 13:55									#14
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Odd as it may sound I never use conscription. I never see it as making much of a difference. Doesn't slow me down when the AI does it. I tend to avoid getting into such dire straits as much as possible.

	17-05-2004 00:10									#15
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I don't think conscripts make much of a difference either. Not unless you have a tech advantage (say, Tanks and Infantry vs Cav and Riflemen) and if you do, you shouldn't need really need extra defense from conscription.

However, as someone pointed out on these forums, conscripting Infantry/MIs and disbanding them is even better than poprushing once you have Recycling.

	17-05-2004 05:30									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I believe you can only draft if you have a majority of your own citizens in the city. Are you saying you can draft foreign citizens when they have the majority if you are in mobilization?

Actually, I didn't know that (regarding the majority of citizens requirements). I rarely use conscription, and my point went to requiring PEACE before you could switch back from mobilization. If you can't get peace, you can't build certain things....it can be a pain.

	17-05-2004 05:42									#17
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I'm not sure if this was part of your point, but you don't need to be mobilized to draft...

Don't any of you run into overgrown populations before sanitation?

	17-05-2004 14:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I'm not sure if this was part of your point, but you don't need to be mobilized to draft... Don't any of you run into overgrown populations before sanitation?

Nope. I just build another worker or settler to improve tiles faster pre-Sanitation, or I redo the terrain improvements I have so there is no food surplus - I get more shields out of it that way.

	17-05-2004 15:27									#19
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yes same here.. once i get to city max size before hospitals, i just set them to build workers and settlers to continue my expansion ...

	17-05-2004 18:04									#20
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I must have really misread something awhile back. I thought you had to be mobilized to draft. I also just build settlers/workers when the cities hit maximum sizes. Thanks for the info...I may draft a bit more often now.

	18-05-2004 02:27									#21
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I feel draft-and-disband is an exploit, so I only draft for desperate defense. There's rarely a need for it.

	18-05-2004 02:40									#22
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i avoid exploits, i feel they are cheating ...

	18-05-2004 10:54									#23
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If you have the right government, conscripts make great garrisons for internal policing...

	18-05-2004 10:57									#24
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thats great , hadnt considered that option for conscripts as they certnianly no good for fightinh ...