07-05-2004 01:28									#1
	Maximum Energy Output on 1 Square Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What is the maximum possible energy output of a single square, given the only rule that you may not edit the map?

I'm going to say it's 51.

Since I'm starting this thread I won't show my math just yet ...

	07-05-2004 01:32									#2
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Let's see.
+3000m solar collector: 4
Eight surrounding echelon mirrors: 12
+2 Economy: 13
energy bonus: 15
river: 16
uranium: 17 (if you edit the map, you could add geothermal, vulcano etc... as well)
Running out of ideas...

	07-05-2004 02:11									#3
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Add Merchant Exchange, replace uranium by pholus ridge which is actually possible on a "normal" map. Now think about solar flare (or whatever triples energy output) and you arrive at 54 instead of 51. But for one turn only.

Is it possible to put multiple landmarks on one square?

	07-05-2004 02:16									#4
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I'd like to see the crawler in the Units Supported panel with 54 energy oranges underneath it

-Jam

	07-05-2004 02:18									#5
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The scenario editor can add different landmarks onto the same square.

*has combined Monsoon Forest and Uranium Flats before*

	07-05-2004 02:55									#6
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Hah, you uncovered that trick pretty quickly: yes, I'm including the "triple energy" random event in order to get to 51.

However, remember the rule: no map editing!

There is no uranium at 3000m, nor have I ever seen Pholus Ridge exceed a height of 2000m. Furthermore, if you raise these specials they lose their "special status".

The 3000m mouth of Mount Planet is the likliest candidate, except that even though you can finagle a solar collector with the "road, solar, farm" compound terraform command there's no way to get an aquifer up there!

Hmm ... maybe if you raise the fringe of Mt. P and drill an aquifer, it might "spill over" into the mouth ... then you could get 54. I'm not sure if that can happen, though.

	07-05-2004 03:32									#7
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I had hear that the raising or lowering of Mt Planet does not remove the bonus production. You could drill a river on one of the non-crater tiles then raise it up to 3000+

	07-05-2004 04:57									#8
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Except raising and lowering affects river flow directions...

Hmm....

-Jam

	07-05-2004 07:31									#9
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Hmm lets see.....

Transcendi specialists at equivalent 6 energy.....

Nut special in the monsoon jungle

Soil enricher
Condensor

Total nuts = 9 IIRC (maybe 10 tho')
Match with hydroponic sattelites

Therefor 9 transcendi * 6 energy = 54 energy minimal

	07-05-2004 11:55									#10
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What's stopping you from creating an ordinary 3000m mountain with a singularity tectonic missile? (or a few formers if you don't have SMAX)

	07-05-2004 13:39									#11
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I think you can get 13 or 14 nuts from a special with soil enricher, condensor, farm and jungle.

-Jam

	07-05-2004 20:33									#12
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It's 13 for special, enricher, condensor, farm, and jungle. I tested it once (see FAQ thread). But, Ogie, I don't think that this "indirect" energy is what was the intention of the thread. However, in your calculation you'll get with satellites 13 transcendi which produce an eqivalent of 78 energy, and support 13 energy satellites, and 13 nessus mining stations. With min-enhancing facilities, I guess you triple the output to 39 minerals, which can be converted to 19 energy. Thus, you would get a total of 110 energy for a single tile.

	07-05-2004 20:47									#13
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Don't forget the Planetary Energy Grid! That way you'll get a 75% percent when converting your mins to energy.

	07-05-2004 21:14									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus It's 13 for special, enricher, condensor, farm, and jungle. I tested it once (see FAQ thread). But, Ogie, I don't think that this "indirect" energy is what was the intention of the thread. However, in your calculation you'll get with satellites 13 transcendi which produce an eqivalent of 78 energy, and support 13 energy satellites, and 13 nessus mining stations. With min-enhancing facilities, I guess you triple the output to 39 minerals, which can be converted to 19 energy. Thus, you would get a total of 110 energy for a single tile.

I know. I was just (not so) cleverly pointing out the interchangability of the various resources. And illustrating how in late game nutrients/population dominates even over a 3x solar energy event.


Thanks for confirming actual max nuts. I keep forgetting these things.

	07-05-2004 21:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Except raising and lowering affects river flow directions

True, but not on a river's source tile, it stays put.

quote: Originally posted by Patashu What's stopping you from creating an ordinary 3000m mountain....

The point was to get as much energy out of one tile as posible. Therefor the need to place it on Mnt Planet to get the extra energy produced there.

	08-05-2004 04:13									#16
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Ogie: Good point; you can get more energy from food than direct energy transfer, although you can build a farm + enricher atop a solar collector.

Maxxing out energy for a base is much different than maxxing it out for a single tile; we haven't even mentioned trade income, golden ages, or other base-related production factors.

Back to maxxing out energy for a single tile: the idea behind raising the fringes of Mt. Planet and drilling aquifers is first to "erase" the fringes' volcano special property so that aquifers may be drilled and second to put the fringes at the same level as the mouth so that, with luck, the river might just flow in that direction.

It might even be necessary to raise the land beyond the fringes, if the river would otherwise always flow in that direction.