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GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 23:07
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JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 23:15
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It's amazing how a perfectly good thread can go to shiite so quickly, isn't it?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 23:20
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Magic, ladies and gentlemen.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 02:38
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Giancarlo please direct your attacks, thats fairly confusing and it broke the thread.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 02:45
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if it was directed to me, your forefathers felt much the same way in the 1600s as we in the US are doing now, they ran a 2 to 1 import to export ratio, that is, until it all collapsed.

"Yet, Spanish leaders were deluded by a sense of false prosperity. This is testified by the statement of a prominent official, Alfonso Nunez de Castro in 1675: “Let London manufacture those fine fabrics of hers to her heart's content; let Holland her chambrays; Florence her cloth; the Indies their beaver and vicuna; Milan her brocade, Italy and Flanders their linens...so long as our capital can enjoy them; the only thing it proves is that all nations train their journeymen for Madrid, and that Madrid is the queen of Parliaments, for all the world serves her and she serves nobody.” A few years later, the Madrid government was bankrupt. The Spanish nobleman had foolishly elevated consumption, a use for wealth, above production, the creation of wealth."

want the whole article?

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
if it was directed to me, your forefathers felt much the same way in the 1600s as we in the US are doing now, they ran a 2 to 1 import to export ratio, that is, until it all collapsed.

"Yet, Spanish leaders were deluded by a sense of false prosperity. This is testified by the statement of a prominent official, Alfonso Nunez de Castro in 1675: “Let London manufacture those fine fabrics of hers to her heart's content; let Holland her chambrays; Florence her cloth; the Indies their beaver and vicuna; Milan her brocade, Italy and Flanders their linens...so long as our capital can enjoy them; the only thing it proves is that all nations train their journeymen for Madrid, and that Madrid is the queen of Parliaments, for all the world serves her and she serves nobody.” A few years later, the Madrid government was bankrupt. The Spanish nobleman had foolishly elevated consumption, a use for wealth, above production, the creation of wealth."

want the whole article?


Good Point

For real..I would enjoy reading this article

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Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 02:55
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here ya go:
http://tradealert.us/view_art.asp?Prod_ID=1086

and Giancarlo, these guys aren't saying vote for Kerry.

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
But, if you don't want to argue it...


I said "without intending to argue about it", as in "I'm not trying to dispute your view, just letting you know what's mine".

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:34
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Did anyone catch CSPAN last night regarding the two employment surveys. Some good stuff. The gist of it was basically an admission from Labor Statisitcs saying they can't put a finger on why the discrepancy between the Establishment and household surveys and as a consequence 'prolly feel the truth lies somewhere in the middle.


Also some interesting other points

Quality of job being added is better ie. morefull time jobs and elimination of part time jobs. Service jobs are being added and now average service job wage rate is approximating manufcaturing job wage rate. ($15.19 ish vs $15.27 /hr. IIRC.)

Interesting in a dry CSPAN way.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:06 Visit DanS's homepage!
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The OECD is calling on the Federal Reserve to raise rates soon...

From FT

quote:
OECD urges Fed action to cool US economy
Tuesday May 11 2004, 10:06

PARIS, May 11 (Reuters) - Policy makers should start efforts to cool the U.S. economy sooner rather than later and a hike in the Federal Reserve's interest rates in June would be a
reasonable start, the OECD's chief economist said.

The U.S. central bank would have to shoulder the burden of withdrawing stimulus from the world's largest economy as there was little prospect of a tightening of fiscal policy, Jean-Philippe Cotis told Reuters in an interview.

"The general message we have is basically withdrawals (of stimulus) should be started sooner rather than later," he said. "For the U.S., the main risk is that macroeconomic policies
remain too expansionary too long during the upswing."

Asked whether June would be a reasonable time for the Federal Reserve to start raising interest rates, Cotis said: "Yes, sure."

Rate rises should be measured, he said: "Incremental is the best option, but it could depend obviously on circumstances."

"The contribution of fiscal policy to cool off the U.S. economy is going to be extremely modest, and so the bulk of stabilisation policy will fall on the central bank," he added.

Cotis spoke to Reuters ahead of publication of the Organisation for Economic Growth and Development's (OECD) twice-yearly Economic Outlook, in which the think-tank forecast
the U.S. economy would grow by 4.7 percent this year.

The Federal Reserve has held the federal funds rate at 1.0 percent, its lowest since 1958, since last June. The next Fed policy meeting is a two-day affair on June 29 and 30. Any U.S. rate rise would be the first since May 2000.

In the euro zone, Cotis said, the economy was sluggish and a cut in interest rates could help underpin the recovery. "Basically price stability is really there," he said of the 12-nation currency zone. "It may be useful to cut and if it's not necessary (to cut rates) then you can start tightening a bit earlier than expected."

"We see it more as an insurance policy," he said of a possible rate cut.

The European Central Bank left interest rates steady at 2.00 percent for the 11th straight month last Thursday. The euro's exchange rate against the dollar had eased to a level that did not hurt European exporters, Cotis said.

"Things are okay on the exchange rate front. They are not acting as a drag any more on the recovery in Europe," he said.

"Now Europeans can fully benefit from the recovery of world demand and hopefully it will also trigger a domestic recovery at the end of the day."

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:10 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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This should prove that Republicans are evil. We've finally got some moderately decent job growth and they want to kill it.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:12
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Why do this, DanS?

wouldn't a rise in taxation have a similar effect ( I assume they fear inflation, not growth itself ), and help pay off debt?

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:16 Visit DanS's homepage!
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che:

Az: The best thing the U.S. government could do right now is cut spending, not raise taxes.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
che:

Az: The best thing the U.S. government could do right now is cut spending, not raise taxes.


I agree Dan.. .

Ya know what happens when you open a>>>>>>>>CAN O' W [-]() () !>@$$<<<<<<<<<

now..if we could just help someone get out of a jam..and not lose face..maybe that would help..otherwise..

We better keep digging deep to pay for some Pride...

GT

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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:26 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Cutting spending . . . like getting rid of the Children's Insurance Program? Or taking more cops off the street than the 25,000 who've already been cut. We could shrink Pell grants even more, so less people can go to college.

Yup, conservatives are evil.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:27 Visit DanS's homepage!
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The U.S. isn't digging deep. What are you talking about?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
che:

Az: The best thing the U.S. government could do right now is cut spending, not raise taxes.


Of course, economically speaking. But that economy exists for a reason, and that reason is to have an education system, and healthcare. Otherwise, the impact is similar. Less cash to go around, smaller government debt.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:29 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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$500 billion defict isn't gonna come from the military. If you're gonna cut spending to match the taxes you cut, you're gonna cut a lot of pograms that help of lot of people.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:30 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Yep. We really don't spend much on the military, even when we've got an occupation and a proxy war going on. It would need to come from somewhere else. Or a lot of somewhere elses, if you were to do an across-the-board spending freeze, for instance.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:34 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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A freeze isn't a cut. You said a cut. At any rate, hurting people is evil, cuts will hurt many, many people, thus, those who advocate those cuts are evil.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:35
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Seriously, shouldn't the growth increase the amount of tax collected?

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
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Jul 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
The U.S. isn't digging deep. What are you talking about?


I am not sure Dan if this was @ me or not..but here is what i stated:

"We better keep digging deep to pay for some Pride"

In other words..KEEP doing what we have been..just deeper and deeper...

Peace

Grandpa Troll

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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Seriously, shouldn't the growth increase the amount of tax collected?


A little bit, but not enough to ever come close to paying the deficit. Either we raise taxes (which is what we will have to do eventually) or we cut spending (which has never been cut enough to get rid of the deficit).

The Repugs aren't going to do either, since they are even more addicted to pork the Dems are. The average Repug Congressional district gets $612 million more in Fed spending than the average Dem distrcit. Plus, they're trying to "starve the beast," i.e., drive the Feds into "bankruptcy" so they can kill Social Security.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:43 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Seriously, shouldn't the growth increase the amount of tax collected?


Leaving aside corporate taxes that are modest in any event, the U.S. has a graduated income tax system. As people's incomes rise, they start to pay a higher percentage to Uncle Sam. So yes, the amount of tax collected should increase. But that's a longer-term impact, not short-term enough to affect inflation.

quote:
A freeze isn't a cut. You said a cut.


Yes, you are correct, sir. However, I was conceding the leftist mantra that spending must increase as fast as the rate of inflation, otherwise it is effectively a cut.

In any event, as long as spending increases somewhere in-between the rate of inflation and the rate of nominal economic growth (about 6.6% this year), we are heading the right direction. I would just rather it be on the lower end of that range, so the economy would be less stimulated and the Fed wouldn't have to raise rates as fast.

But in order to do this effectively right now, you would have to have the congress start rescinding spending already authorized. The chances of them doing that are null. On the other hand, the congress will probably pass a continuing resolution for most of the spending bills and they'll take care of spending after the election. This will naturally put the breaks on spending increases for a couple of months.

Last edited by DanS on 12-05-2004 at 00:52

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:46
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I don't know, but around here, we have had 3.5% annualized growth in the last couple of quarters, and state tax revenues went up by a couple of billions monthly ( and for us, it's a lot of money. )

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:49 Visit DanS's homepage!
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I don't know anything about your tax system, but I'll take your word for it.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:55 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Either we raise taxes (which is what we will have to do eventually) or we cut spending (which has never been cut enough to get rid of the deficit).


Che, that's a common misconception. When the economy grows, taxes grow without raising the tax rate. As stated above, the deficit will go down this/next year if we spend less than about 6.6% more ($200 billion) than we did last/this year.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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How many centuries are you planning to hold budget growth study while waiting for economic growth to bring taxes up to a balanced budget. The Laugher Curve is BS.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:58 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Get out your calculator. It doesn't take long (3 or 4 years).

This has nothing to do with the Laugher's curve.

Last edited by DanS on 12-05-2004 at 01:11

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 12-05-2004 01:00
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I can't imagine it being radically different from yours ( Except the state/federal tax divide, which is beyond me)

36% corporate tax.
IIRC 45% upper bracket income tax.
IIRC, 20% personal capital earnings tax.
17% VAT.


that's about it.

 
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