09-06-2004 03:13									#481
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maybe we need another icon for larger groups of multiple divisions

i suggest the current ones are fine for the divsion size. but if the group is actually a corps or an army then it should be represented differently....

	09-06-2004 07:46									#482
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin but if you want to make the divsions only 25000 then you have to increase the number of units shown on the map especially for auldonnia who have many mroe troops than that shown on map..

Please explain the logistic operations behind this.

	09-06-2004 07:54									#483
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin approx 2 mill audlonina troops have been roleplayed as being in azan,.... lets get some agreement on this before continuing please....

Excuse me?!

	09-06-2004 08:29									#484
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin approx 2 mill audlonina troops have been roleplayed as being in azan

Interesting. Now where did that number come from?

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin lets get some agreement on this before continuing please....

I think the agreement will be it is impossible for you to have an army of that size in Azan.

	09-06-2004 10:25									#485
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200,000 troops gives you the same amount (give or take) as the Hive ended up having. Even that is huge and difficult to support from as far away as Auldoninna is. Any more than that is simply ridiculous.

	09-06-2004 11:28									#486
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Please explain the logistic operations behind this.

ok here we go again....

my full military size is over 12mill so sending a small fraction of that to AZan is not a problem seeing we were there to conquer the whole nation already..

If USA can send 400,000 of their troops across the world to fight in Kuwait war iraq , from a total of 1.5 mill ( approx 30%) i am sure that the logisitics exist for a nation to send only 16% of their forces....

	09-06-2004 11:29									#487
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quote: Originally posted by joncha 200,000 troops gives you the same amount (give or take) as the Hive ended up having. Even that is huge and difficult to support from as far away as Auldoninna is. Any more than that is simply ridiculous.

actually the Hive posted they had approx 3 million in FCL.... !!!! so i jsut had to match theor numbers... less of course as they are bigger.....

	09-06-2004 11:34									#488
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quote: Originally posted by joncha 200,000 troops gives you the same amount (give or take) as the Hive ended up having. Even that is huge and difficult to support from as far away as Auldoninna is. Any more than that is simply ridiculous.

please explain how this is impossible to support, dont compare my numbers to that of USA my population is nearly 5 times bigger than that of USA....we can suport the troops via airlifts and sea transport, gee i had to post some of my sea transports sunk earlier due to hive attacks...

you have to remeber that no nation would send a small force to a war zone when the potential enemy are much larger.

As with must military buildups it took time to get their but with the time this war going on we have continued to build up

if a small island in the West can hold my whole population then Azan which is probably over 50 times larger in size can easily hold that many and support them...

	09-06-2004 11:37									#489
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Interesting. Now where did that number come from? I think the agreement will be it is impossible for you to have an army of that size in Azan.

I origianly posted half my army was in azan, which i reduced later...

if the agreement is that i cant be there then so be it... But i bleeive that you all are looking at the worng numbers.. you have to see how small that number is to my population and military potential.....

	09-06-2004 11:41									#490
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We rejected the Hive numbers as BS a long time ago.

200,000 is huge for an army, especially one overseas. 2 or 3 million is just stupid.

	09-06-2004 11:53									#491
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin If USA can send 400,000 of their troops across the world to fight in Kuwait war iraq , from a total of 1.5 mill ( approx 30%) i am sure that the logisitics exist for a nation to send only 16% of their forces....

You can notice the US has a smaller military as a % of population. The US also accounts for 22% or so of global GDP. What's your country's share?

Hive is right next to FCL, and it is also much bigger than you. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they can field a much bigger army there than you can. As jon pointed out, Hive ended up having a much smaller army. Heck, Centralis is bigger and closer, and they don't have anything remotely close to 2 million.

Now, some real numbers will be nice, like fuel consumption and such. What is your military budget and how is it allocated? What I really would like to know is how much fuel you use up transporting supplies, and how much global production there is. I am not jumping down your throat, but you need to make things more realistic for others to accept.

	09-06-2004 22:37									#492
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin If USA can send 400,000 of their troops across the world to fight in Kuwait war iraq , from a total of 1.5 mill ( approx 30%) i am sure that the logisitics exist for a nation to send only 16% of their forces....

Well, the US did it and continue to do stuff like it, but it's costing them... Is your economy really that much larger??

I'm not talking about any percentage of your total force here, I'm talking about the sheer cost of sending a force of several million men abroad and the enormous amounts of supplies and stuff they would need. If you have that many supply depots with that much stuff in them and that many ships and stuff for carrying supplies around, then there aren't too many fighting men and women in your military...

The Normandy landings involved less than 200,000 fighting troops, and that was done by a pretty darn large alliance, not by a single nation. Even so, it took them over 6 months to prepare and even then a lot of things seriously wrong...

	10-06-2004 03:00									#493
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You can notice the US has a smaller military as a % of population.

Not true at all... the numbers i use in my spreadsheet for calculating military size are from the US numbers so they are as relaistic as they are..

quote: The US also accounts for 22% or so of global GDP. What's your country's share?

this is irrelevant as it is only my size that matters not my share of the world.. My econmy is Frightening and we have more money left over each year than a lot of nations have totla production

quote: Hive is right next to FCL, and it is also much bigger than you. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they can field a much bigger army there than you can. As jon pointed out, Hive ended up having a much smaller army. Heck, Centralis is bigger and closer, and they don't have anything remotely close to 2 million.

as i stated , the USA sent approx 1/3 of their military half way round the world i can easily send 1/6 of mine . as for centralis he isnt there to conquer to the place , but i am !!!!!!

quote: Now, some real numbers will be nice, like fuel consumption and such. What is your military budget and how is it allocated? What I really would like to know is how much fuel you use up transporting supplies, and how much global production there is. I am not jumping down your throat, but you need to make things more realistic for others to accept.

sorry cant provide this figures as i not a transportation person i would have no idea where to even look for these figures, i base all my RP on real life activitys that have occured in our world. if this amount of detail is needed everytime people make posts then will remove all fun..

but to answer a question with a question , how can a nation with an imploded econmy with its main industry LEomonade sales make any military intervention across the oceans far from home. seems whilst at least i use my nation states numbers to make my RP some just totaly ignore them. I will gladly reduce my numbers to a lower level, providing the same percentage drop is done for all nations... I already reduced my 2 mill troops to 1.25 mill for sake of reasonability, to reduce further would mean that other nations such as frankychan would only have about 100,000 troops and some even less....

	10-06-2004 03:05									#494
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quote: Originally posted by Guardian Well, the US did it and continue to do stuff like it, but it's costing them... Is your economy really that much larger?? I'm not talking about any percentage of your total force here, I'm talking about the sheer cost of sending a force of several million men abroad and the enormous amounts of supplies and stuff they would need. If you have that many supply depots with that much stuff in them and that many ships and stuff for carrying supplies around, then there aren't too many fighting men and women in your military... The Normandy landings involved less than 200,000 fighting troops, and that was done by a pretty darn large alliance, not by a single nation. Even so, it took them over 6 months to prepare and even then a lot of things seriously wrong...

its all proportional . the usa with 265 million cna support 400,000 overseas troops at war from 1.5 mill military. anyone with over a billions pop and similar econmy would easily acieve numbers five time slarger than the american numbers... the usa has enough tranports etc to move them so do we..

as i said above if my total military is to be reduced ( and i suggested this in the military thread) then all nations must be reduced too, i am fine by that, if people ratheri post i sent 400,000 to azan but to make it equitable then all other nations must reduce their military capacity by same percentage....

	10-06-2004 07:50									#495
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Ras, I think I speak for everyone when I say,

	10-06-2004 08:15									#496
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin Not true at all... the numbers i use in my spreadsheet for calculating military size are from the US numbers so they are as relaistic as they are..

While your work on the military calculator is appreciated, you admitted that it is a work in progress. Thus, it does not reflect reality all that well.

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin this is irrelevant as it is only my size that matters not my share of the world.. My econmy is Frightening and we have more money left over each year than a lot of nations have totla production

Certainly it matters. The sheer number of population in our region alone tells that this is not a real world, therefore, absolute numbers are meaningless. You have to use relative strength. And don't get me started on the economy model of NationStates. It is both overly simplistic and flawed.

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin as i stated , the USA sent approx 1/3 of their military half way round the world i can easily send 1/6 of mine . as for centralis he isnt there to conquer to the place , but i am !!!!!!

You have failed to address the most important salient point, which is the comparision between your army and the Hive's. If you insist that 1/6 of your army is 2million, and that you can support them indefinitely, the only conclusion we can reasonably draw will be Hive got 4 million men there. In this case, I am outta there, and you will be crushed. I mean CRUSHED.

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin sorry cant provide this figures as i not a transportation person i would have no idea where to even look for these figures, i base all my RP on real life activitys that have occured in our world. if this amount of detail is needed everytime people make posts then will remove all fun..

No Ras. The whole point of asking you to provide some backup argument, instead of just BAM'ing away, is this is not D&D. You don't get a demon working for you by casting a spell. We need some realism.

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin but to answer a question with a question , how can a nation with an imploded econmy with its main industry LEomonade sales make any military intervention across the oceans far from home. seems whilst at least i use my nation states numbers to make my RP some just totaly ignore them.

Which answer do you want? How about this one? How is it possible for a country to have a Frightening economy and a 100% tax rate at the same time? How is it possible for a government to be both pro-business and looking to stamp out teenagers selling lemonade? How is it possible for a government to be both small and efficient and omnipresent? How is it possible for Earth to support 60 if not 600 billion people?

	10-06-2004 08:28									#497
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So you are saying it ok for countries to have a few hundred thousand strong army regardless of nationstates results , but i cant possibly have a larger army ..

AS i said, i quite willing to reduce my numbers, but the proportional decrease must be same for all nations. I can update the calculator to do that if that is what people want .

	10-06-2004 14:32									#498
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Just popping in and signing into Apolyton to give a heads up on my situation.

I know I said that I would be able to post something later today, but I've been called into work at my other job. I probably won't be able to post on Thursday cause I have to pull a doubleshift, which means I can't post until Friday. I know this'll get some people pi**ed off at me, but hey, RL work calls and I must answer like the drone I am.

Apologies from me guys, my bad.

	10-06-2004 14:34									#499
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i can play your turn if yuo want !!!

	10-06-2004 23:05									#500
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I think we'll still be busy arguing by the time you get back, Frankychan. Take your time.

	11-06-2004 08:53									#501
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin So you are saying it ok for countries to have a few hundred thousand strong army regardless of nationstates results , but i cant possibly have a larger army ..

No, you can't support such a huge army abroad. Your country just does not have the logistic capabilities for this.

	11-06-2004 10:20									#502
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Time to lock this thread, UR... I'll start up a new one.

The new OOC thread is here.

Last edited by joncha on 11-06-2004 at 10:33