10-05-2004 12:22									#1
	The Aftermath Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't think anyone, even the biggest optimists on this team believe that we will win this game through this operation. This means, however successful we are, possibly razing GWT's entire west and Parthemuende and Flammburg, the game will go on. And we should have a plan to deal with that.

After this invasion, I believe that Ruhrpott and a few other GWT west cities will be razed (save the debates for the outcome elsewhere, I'm just using this as a base to work off of for the sake of discussion ). This means we will have a lead on GWT economically and possibly militarily (depending on how many losses each side suffers). However, with Leo's GWT will still be a deadly military threat, and will no doubt be on guard the rest of the game.

Now, I have to get studying for my French History final tomorrow morning at 7am, so I'll be prompt for now and expand on my thoughts later.

I think the best way to deliver the coup de grace to GWT will be to trigger our GA in ~40 turns. With our GA (and cities properly prepared, with CHs where necessary and higher populations) we should be able to create the REAL army of doom, capable of sending GWT to meet Sid. We can use the current wonder build in AP to build Smith's Trading Company to trigger this. Because of using our major shield producers (Ming, Tripoli, Banana) for the war, and our switching of HoD to naval duty, the only option to do this is AP.

With the decidedly military focus that this game is taking on, I believe that switching AP from the HG to Smith's is a wise decision so that we can deliver a Cavalry-led charge into Webringen. We can finish Smith's in ~40 turns, as opposed to getting the HG and Cope's (roughly) in that amount of time.

E_T wants to build the HG, then Copernicus, then a Lib then a Uni in AP. This will give us a super science city. He then wants to trigger the GA later, using it to build Factories and such. We then launch our invasion after that.

However, I don't feel that this is proper for the reason I just stated above. This game will (obviously) end with war, and if we give GWT too much time after our invasion (conclusion should be 20-25 turns from now) then they will be able to rebuild another fierce army with the help of Leo's (and probably their FP, or do a Palace jump), despite being economically inferior. And they will eventually reach Navigation. They're still only 4 techs away.

We can use our GA to build up a new force of Horses and gold. Get Military Tradition, do a mass-upgrade and land the Wave of Doom (WoV, tm, of course ) in 55-65 turns.

After a bloody war of death and attrition, our superior numbers will triumph (just as in the GCA war), but this time there won't be anyone to save them. The game will be won with the conclusion of Armageddon.

	10-05-2004 17:11									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In theory, it sounds great. I wonder about the numbers though. While it is true that giving GWT some limited time to rebuild will let them have more forces by the time we land, giving ourselves enough time to build up to the killer forces we can produce a bit later in the game might give us an even more overwhelming advantage.

Frankly, I'd be more comfortable if we could at least project (even with clumsy accuracy) our potential under each plan and GWT's likely potential under each scenario. Trip may be right that hitting them while they are still rebuilding would be wiser. On the other hand, E_T may be correct in that giving more time for our economic advantage (once gained) to really power us forward and produce more units than they can would be better.

Of course, part of the equation here would be striking with cavalry before they get Nationalism. Trip's plan might seem the safer for that, but I'd like to at least investigate whether E_T's earlier plan would be more or less effective by the time of the war.

	10-05-2004 20:34									#3
	Tired of ads?

I concur with Arnelos, I think we need some more information.

	11-05-2004 06:04									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ditto on more information.

However, I do think that we are should fight this war when we have an advantage in tech and in numbers. It may be that Cav for us vs their Muskets gives us the best advantage, or it may be that Infantry + Artillary vs their Riflemen (or Muskets) gives us the best advantage.

IF ... we can get to Replaceable Parts before they can get to Nationalism and Steam Power, I would propose that we attack THEN, if the economic advantages between the two scenerios are otherwise equal. If not, Cavalry vs Muskets may be our best bet just as long as we can maintain a very high production rate, and we'll need our GA to do that.

I'm all for Adam Smiths over HG. I never liked the HG plan nor our pointless detour into Monarchy.

--Togas

	11-05-2004 06:08									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The problem with going for RP before we attack is the fact that we'll basically be doing research by ourselves. The technological pace of this game will be much slower than the PTWDG simply due to the fact that there are many more major research powers in that game (that have more developed economies also) than in this game. Assuming 7 turns to every tech, we'll be waiting a minimum of 74 turns, an extra 7 each for Music Theory (for Bach's), MT (for Cav), Industrialization (for Factories), and so on.

	11-05-2004 10:41									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Contrasting with our hastily-prepared plan to attack Ruhrpott, I feel that any further adventure against GWT be with 100% knowledge that we will inflict the devastating game-winning blow needed. We need to figure out during what period of time we are able to accomplish this so yes, we need more info.

	11-05-2004 11:14									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: MZ[Tru_Wargamer]> hmmm MZ[Tru_Wargamer]> I feel like another 1 hours spam spree MZ[Tru_Wargamer]> last time I made 22 posts MZ[Tru_Wargamer]> spam spree begins...

TruthOMeter (ripped off)

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Contrasting with our hastily-prepared plan to attack Ruhrpott, I feel that any further adventure against GWT be with 100% knowledge that we will inflict the devastating game-winning blow needed. We need to figure out during what period of time we are able to accomplish this so yes, we need more info.

Heh. There's nothing new there.

	11-05-2004 11:24									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

TruthOMeter (ripped off)

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos TruthOMeter (ripped off) Heh. There's nothing new there.

Arnelos, you do realize you're just counter-spamming.