11-05-2004 05:41									#1
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Woah!!!

I was playing Cybernetic/Thinker/Large-Random-Map. I had wiped out both progenitor factions, foisted an alliance upon the Drones, and gained solid treaties with the Angels and Cult. Only the Pirates stood in my way. I was slapping them silly with bombers and they had no air power. I controlled nearly every SP, I was well in the lead for Fusion power, and would easily win the race for transcendence.

Then all my cities and units simultaneously vanished as though sucked into a space time discontinuum. The base display (F4) showed an empty list. In return I was given a big stack of colony pods etc.

The pirates immediately offered me a truce, in a gloating tone of voice.

Is this a known bug?? Or did the Pirates unleash a vicious undocumented SP, heheheh?

	11-05-2004 06:19									#2
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Never experienced this bug myself, but I have heard of it happening before. If you go back in this Forum a ways, you'll see at least one other player that has experienced this.
I don't think theres any fix for this, but since it doesn't appear to happen very often, why it can be lived with.


D

	11-05-2004 07:13									#3
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I have experienced it in a SP game-- I don't know any fix but I think if you go back enough years it will not necessarily re-occurr

	11-05-2004 08:12									#4
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I think it happens when you remove a faction sometimes. The game gets confused and removes your faction instead.

	11-05-2004 08:23									#5
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A known bug. What probably happened is that one of the other factions probed your headquarters, trying to free one of the factions that you eliminated. The normal result of this action is that the eliminated faction restarts the game with some colony pods, techs, etc. The bug is that your faction, not the eliminated faction, restarts the game as just described.

	11-05-2004 09:19									#6
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interesting.

that could make the game challenging.

	11-05-2004 09:56									#7
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When plying with free faction leader enabled, keep a probe team in your HQ.

	12-05-2004 01:51									#8
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Hmm, I thought I did have a probe in my capital. Oh well.

	17-05-2004 12:03									#9
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is the probe success rate 100%

I think I asked this before, can't remember if I got an answer.

iirc Civ2 spys had a 50% success rate didn't they?

	29-05-2004 02:49									#10
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I just had this happen. No one is close enough to my capitol to probe (unless the spartans started to make probe jets?). I also haven't eliminated anyone. It also happens after the computers turns, and at the very begining of your turn. I did see it happen once to the computer too (it lost all its cities for no reason, but I didn't care).

	29-05-2004 09:37									#11
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Oh, this sounds fun. Did all the bases dissapear at once? I was playing a one-city challenge game, and my base dissapeared, and I was apparently the alien faction, but I couldn't control anything.

	31-05-2004 13:41									#12
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I think it only happens in SMAX, not SMAC

	31-05-2004 15:07									#13
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You are correct Straybow (it is connected to faction leader freeing mechanic).

	02-06-2004 07:38									#14
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I have crossfire, so maybe that's why. But how do you free a faction leader? I've never actually done it, and honestly, except for Domai and Morgan, who would I want to free anyway? They'd probably declare war on me the next turn, even if it was me who freed them. Stupid lal, his people would probably kill me for putting him back in office. Speaking of which, how does that retard lal stay in office under democracy. Is his/her people that stupid, or does he do thought control too.

And I now that freeing faction leaders destroys your faction, why would I do it? Does it happen every time?

	02-06-2004 07:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Commy I have crossfire, so maybe that's why. But how do you free a faction leader?

You probe the HQ of the faction that eliminated them.

quote: I've never actually done it, and honestly, except for Domai and Morgan, who would I want to free anyway?

The freed faction becomes your submissive, just the same as if they surrendered to you. They'll turn on you only if you commit a major atrocity or if some other faction frames you for an atrocity.

quote: And I now that freeing faction leaders destroys your faction, why would I do it? Does it happen every time?

The bug being discussed in this thread happens if some other faction probes your HQ, not if you probe another faction's HQ.

	02-06-2004 19:25									#16
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One other thing, I think that freeing factions was introduced in SMAX patch 2.0.

	03-06-2004 03:06									#17
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So they surrender to you. So if you demand things from them, will they turn on you? Just wondering.

And, ah, that leads me to another question. Has anybody ever seen the AI commit an atrocity besides planet busting bases? I never have, even when playing against the progenitors.

	03-06-2004 06:10									#18
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I've seen X-units come at me before.
None of them ever hit home, but it was easy enough to tell what they were planning to do - running through my 'mincing zone' to my HQ with nerve gas pods.

	03-06-2004 22:19									#19
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what about demanding things?

	03-06-2004 22:38									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Commy So they surrender to you. So if you demand things from them, will they turn on you? Just wondering.

No - they remain submissive no matter how strong they get and regardless of the demands for techs or credits that you make of them (in fact, when you open the commlink, if they have a tech they'll give it you with the "it is my pleasure" spiel). But, if you commit atrocities that total 20 or more on the atrocity scale, they will turn on you and declare vendetta (basically a single PB or captured base obliteration, 3 - or maybe 5 - nervegas uses or 2 or more own-base obliterations, or ten or more nervestaplings - there's a list somewhere that I've seen which gives the scale but I've rummaged and can't find it

quote: And, ah, that leads me to another question. Has anybody ever seen the AI commit an atrocity besides planet busting bases? I never have, even when playing against the progenitors.

When a CMN creates a scenario start for a PBEM, there's a flag in the AI diplomace screens that lets the CMN toggle a switch "commit atrocities wantonly" as well as "obliterate captured bases". If flagged, then the AI will do that - use nervegas, obliterate captured bases, and will build - and use - multiple Planetbusters

G.

	03-06-2004 23:33									#21
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When a faction has surrendered to you it is submissive. You can extort things from them (use "Otherwise I shall cancel our PoB" when explaining yourself). Faction can turn submissive without being defeated by anyone, and the same applies too.