11-05-2004 21:19									#1
	AU 503: Pick the Pillager Put an end to popups!

In AU 503 you will be encouraged to destroy the early growth of neighboring civilizations through pillaging. Early-game pillging tactics can be very powerful against the AI, but most players not named Aeson have limited experience with them.

Please vote for the civilization(s) with an early pillaging UU that you would like to see featured in AU 503. You may pick more than one, although the course will likely feature the one with the highest number of votes. The choices are:

• The Sumerians: The Enkidu Warrior is a feared pillager in multiplayer, so much that Firaxis has increased its cost in the multiplayer rules. But how does it measure up in single player? Will its cheap cost be overpowering against the AI? How will the Agricultural trait measure up in a start without fresh water?
  
• The Incas: The Chasqui scout is a weak UU for fighting, but due to its high movement it can be used very effectively for pillaging. Is the AU mod version of the Chasqui Scout too powerful, or is the stock version too weak? How will the Agricultural trait measure up in a start without fresh water?
  
• The Aztecs: The Jaguar Warrior has been weakened in C3C, but is it now too weak? Like the Chasqui Scout, pillaging is one of the uses where it's still hard to beat. How will the Agricultural trait measure up in a start without fresh water?
  
• The Greeks: The Hoplite is similar to the Enkidu Warrior because it has a very low cost for its defensive strength. Hoplites have been a longtime builder favorite, but can you show that they are also very well suited for pillaging?
  
• The Zulu: Perhaps the best pillaging unit in the game, the Impi has a high defensive strength to go with its high speed. If you don't have experience in pillaging tactics, perhaps the Zulu are a good place to start.
  

Last edited by alexman on 11-05-2004 at 23:03

	11-05-2004 21:36									#2
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I voted for Inca and Sumeria, though Inca is my first choice.
Sumeria was included because the Enkidu has been recently debated here in AU, but you don't see too many people singing the praises of the Inca. Perhaps we can find out why or change some minds.

	11-05-2004 21:44									#3
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Zulu has the most scholastic value, so that's my vote.

(I also voted Inca.)

	11-05-2004 21:50									#4
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The reason I'm not big on the Sumerians (and to a lesser extent the Greeks) is that they're economically strong enough that you could do very well without pillaging. In fact, you would probably do better.

With the Zulu, which is all about it's pillager-UU, players would not be tempted to fall back upon their builder-style habits.

	11-05-2004 22:21									#5
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If we go for a starting position with little or no fresh water near the capital, the Agricultural civs (which include the Incas and Aztecs as well as the Sumerians) would lose most of their REXing advantage over other civs. As for the Greeks' commercial trait, I can't help but think that that could make crippling a rival's REXing in order to claim more land for themselves more valuable rather than less.

Even so, my initial thought is that the Zulus would be the best choice if we all play the same civ because they can use both pillaging styles ("hit and run" and "dare the opponent to counterattack") instead of being limited to one or the other.

I'm deferring my vote for the moment, though, since someone else points out something I've missed.

	11-05-2004 22:25									#6
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Regarding the Incas, are people keeping in mind the difference the fact that the Aztecs are Militaristic and the Incas Expansionist makes, or just voting for the Incas over the Aztecs because they have a slightly more capable UU?

	11-05-2004 22:54									#7
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I think you oversimplified the reasons folks could be picking Inca.

They are not touted often.
The UU is one that the mod debated(did we change it?).
It's a "new" civ. Everyone's played the Zulu and the Aztecs, but not everyone has given the Inca a "serious" try.
The traits are an interesting combination that says "If you don't get it right early, you've wasted the edge."
The fact that the Chasqui Scout is weak in battle actually would help keep its focus on pillaging and not conquering or baiting. No sitting around fishing for MGLs with these guys.

One last one - I think some AUers see the courses as a chance to stretch their skills a bit. Since it's not a competition and we've seen even the most regarded of players get smacked early in the last two courses let's folks relax a bit - there's no scorecard - and try things they wouldn't normally try. Like the Incas. I can honestly say I've never purposely chosen the Incas for a game. Drawn them on Random, sure, but never purposely decided "Gee, the Inca sound fun." I could say the same about the Hittites and Sumeria.

That's just what I think. I could be wrong.

	12-05-2004 19:19									#8
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I'm glad the community picked up on my suggestion to have this poll. How did you guys pull this off? I only posted the idea 2 minutes ago

	15-05-2004 13:04									#9
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Hello.

I'm quite new to AU. (waiting for my first one to begin soon )

I would have voted Inca and/or Zulu, but poll was closed already