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kobo1d is offline kobo1d
Chieftain

Apr 2004
time: 05:36
  Old Post 12-05-2004 19:23
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Rank the Traits: Results Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hello again all. Sorry 'bout the long wait, school has been crazy this week.

A week ago, a began a series of polls to rank the traits. The feedback was wonderful, and many voters posted their resoning on why they voted. I appreciate everyones feedback and opinions. Now, lets get to those numbers.

These are the ranks.

1) Agricultural
Numerical Value: 4.738095238
Total Votes: 43

2) Industrious
Numerical Value: 3.8
Total Votes: 41

3) Religious
Numerical Value: 3.5
Total Votes: 41

4) Seafaring
Numerical Value: 3.405405405
Total Votes: 38

5) Commercial
Numerical Value: 3.243243243
Total Votes: 38

6) Scientific
Numerical Value: 2.972222222
Total Votes: 37

7) Militiristic
Numerical Value: 2.454545455
Total Votes: 34

8) Expansionist
Numerical Value: 2.222222222
Total Votes: 37

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 14-05-2004 10:00
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I think you could have done it with one thread instead of 8. Multiply that by how many times you provided updates in each thread and you have the majority of the distance from settler to chieftain. Nicely done.

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:36
  Old Post 14-05-2004 19:52
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I think that's a pretty unfair comment, not to mention uncalled for.

Well done kobo1d....an interesting series of polls, that gave some quite useful results given the number of votes that were cast. And clearly from the amount of debate it generated (including comments from many long time Apolyton contributors), it was well received.

Good stuff

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 15-05-2004 00:02
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I'm surprised it's so even. Last we had a poll on traits on CFC, Agr and Ind was way above the rest of the pack.

kobo1d is offline kobo1d
Chieftain

Apr 2004
time: 05:36
  Old Post 15-05-2004 01:35
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I'm sorry I didn't know how to put 8 polls on one thread.

I hate reading threads where the creators started something and never tried to keep it going. And they just die off and go into the archives without further discussion. Keeping the stats updated not only 'bumps' the thread but also informs people that the stats have changed.

Not to mention I don't care what my rank or whatever it is called is. [I believe] most people will respect an opinion and listen without noting "Look, a Settler/Chieftain, lets not listen!" If these ranks somehow enhance your membership other than changing what it says next to your name, I am unaware of that fact. Please inform me if it does.

(Cooldown phase)

Ok now,

Thank you aqualung, I am also pleased with the amount of feedback and votes my poll recieved.

The distance between 1-Agr and the rest is almost as big as the amount between 3-Rel and 7-Mil. Thats pretty far up there by my standards.

Sir Ralph is offline Sir Ralph
Emperor
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 15-05-2004 01:57
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Those ranks don't mean squat. There are people who became Kings after posting 1000 posts of meaningless rubbish, and others who are still Settlers after posting 10 well thought posts. I think, I respect the latter more.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 15-05-2004 02:32
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There's the fact you can have a custom avatar after 500 posts, tho. Well, it's a while till I'm there ...

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 15-05-2004 09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo1d
I'm sorry I didn't know how to put 8 polls on one thread.


Don't have to. Start one thread asking "Rank the traits in your order of preference". Simpler? You don't have that problem where more answer only some of your polls.

quote:
Originally posted by kobo1d
I hate reading threads where the creators started something and never tried to keep it going. And they just die off and go into the archives without further discussion. Keeping the stats updated not only 'bumps' the thread but also informs people that the stats have changed.


Keeping 8 threads going is easier than one?

quote:
Originally posted by kobo1d
Not to mention I don't care what my rank or whatever it is called is. [I believe] most people will respect an opinion and listen without noting "Look, a Settler/Chieftain, lets not listen!" If these ranks somehow enhance your membership other than changing what it says next to your name, I am unaware of that fact. Please inform me if it does.


Quite correct. Rank does not matter. Everyone's opinion counts equally. The site only does it for flavor. Padding at the lowest ranks has occurred in the past so there are a few that don't believe as we all do.

Its good to see you wrapped it up in one thread instead of all 8. Happy posting!

kobo1d is offline kobo1d
Chieftain

Apr 2004
time: 05:36
  Old Post 16-05-2004 03:44
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Simpler? Yes. More accurate? I don't think so.
This system has given us the numerical values rather than just 1-8 so we can see exactly how much better the best are.

It is a little bit harder, but I don't mind spending 5 extra minutes.

This Chieftain is glad we kept things civil. Happy posting!

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 16-05-2004 08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo1d
This Chieftain is glad we kept things civil. Happy posting!


zorbop is offline zorbop
Warlord
st louis
Jan 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 02-06-2004 06:14
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Using Kobo1d's results, I made a list of what the most popular civs are. Obviously, ignoring UU. (I rounded to the first decimal place)

Ag-Ind: 8.5: Maya
Ag-Rel: 8.2: Celts
Ag-Sea: 8.1: Netherlands
Ag-Com: 7.9: Iroquois
Ag-Sci: 7.7: Sumeria
Ind-Rel: 7.3: Egypt
Ag-Mil: 7.2: Aztec
Ind-Sea: 7.2: Carthage
Ind-Com: 7: France
Ag-Ex: 6.9: Inca
Rel-Sea: 6.9: Spain
Ind-Sci: 6.8: Persia/Ottomans
Rel-Com: 6.7: India
Sea-Com: 6.6: England
Rel-Sci: 6.5: Babylon
Sea-Sci: 6.4: Byzantines
Ind-Mil: 6.3: China
Com-Sci: 6.2: Greece/Korea
Ind-Ex: 6: America
Rel-Mil: 6: Japan
Sea-Mil: 5.9: Scandinavia
Rel-Ex: 5.7: Arabia
Com-Mil: 5.7: Rome
Sea-Ex: 5.6: Portugal
Sci-Mil: 5.5: Germany
Com-Ex: 5.4: Hittites
Sci-Ex: 5.2: Russia
Mil-Ex: 4.7: Zulu/Mongolia

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 02-06-2004 16:04
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Intriguing... although if we factord in UUs then I am sure some of those would change dramatically - like China for example.

Mountain Sage is offline Mountain Sage
King

Feb 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 02-06-2004 18:04
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good job kobo1d and zorbop

kobo1d is offline kobo1d
Chieftain

Apr 2004
time: 05:36
  Old Post 03-06-2004 07:17
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I was thinking of doing something similar to what zorbop did...kudos for actually doing it z.

Now if we could give values to UUs...

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 03-06-2004 09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Intriguing... although if we factord in UUs then I am sure some of those would change dramatically - like China for example.


Or the Byzantines...

Odd, I would have thought that Babylon would be ranked pretty high... IMO it's the builder civ.

vulture is offline vulture
King
Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:36
  Old Post 03-06-2004 14:55
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The problem is that trait combinations aren't always just the sum of the traits, even before you get on to the UU question. Carthage is Industrious and Seafaring (7.2), two traits which work completely independently of each other. China is Industrious and Militaristic (6.3), but that is a good combination for the early game. The ability to build archers from the start, plus the industrious workers boosting their production (lumberjacking) and mobility (roads towards the enemy) and half-price barracks gives you pretty much the best setup for an ultra-early archer rush of a neighbour. On a typical (continents, 70% water) game I'd take the Ind/Mil combo over Ind/Sea. Seafaring is obviously the better choice for an archipelago game, where there are no early targets available.

Obviously there is also the factor of what type of game you want to play. For research and trading, Ind/Sea wins out. For fighting, Ind/Mil.

Babylon is another nice example - Religious and Scientific work together well. The cultural benefits stack up to give you an advantage over everyone. And particularly in the middle ages, cathedrals and universities are fairly major investments of shields. Saving 160 (or is it 180) shields per city on those gives you a boost at at time where there is a lot to be built.

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:36
  Old Post 03-06-2004 15:20
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And at the top end when you take the UU's into account, it's pretty hard to go past the Maya and Celts for both their traits and UU. The Maya on flood plains with a few decent production tiles - Ag/Ind is a pretty powerful combination with higher growth matched by faster tile improvement. Add in the Javelin Thrower worker factory.....and watch out!

At the bottom end though, the Zulu would have to go up a bunch of places because of their pillaging/defending UU.....very underated.

zorbop is offline zorbop
Warlord
st louis
Jan 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 04-06-2004 09:54
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I think i'd have to agree with vulture. The results for best civ arn't teribly acurate when you add in UU or combination of traits.
I was surprised though that some civs with great UU's (iroquois, maya) ranked so high in traits also, and some with awful UU's (russia, mongolia) ranked so low in traits.

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