12-05-2004 23:21									#1
	Global Warming Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The whole pollution thing in Civ is overdone, with irreversable and all to frequent terrain changes. I've modded my Civ3 to make buildings like banks reduce pollution to minimise the effects, but I think it needs to be a far smaller problem in Civ4.

Most people have heard the theory that the sun is currently going through an active cycle and in 60 years time we'll all be worrying about global cooling, and now i've seen an interesting new theory at http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiap...reut/index.html

I'm no scientist, but I do think theres enough evidence to reduce pollution effects in Civ4!!!

Please.

	12-05-2004 23:33									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

heh. Join the chorus.

The problem is that when creating a game, the designers of the game will create reality however they see it, not necessarily as reality exists.

	12-05-2004 23:36									#3
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Exactly besides I agree that perhaps is way too much pollution in Civ, I think reallity have nothing to do when the designers decide what to do with pollution.

anyway we should start a anti-pollution and anti-corruption movement here in poly. Those darn things are the things I hate the most in civ.

	12-05-2004 23:37									#4
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It was reversible in Civ2, I never understood why they didn't leave it that way.

I've changed my game so that pollution has no global warming effects, because they made it an all-or-nothing proposition, and I don't care how well I was doing or how much fun I was having, those first few ruined tiles always depressed me and ruined the fun.

	12-05-2004 23:39									#5
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If it were still possible to change terrain types (as in Civ2 with engineering) it would be different.

BECAUSE YOU COULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

	13-05-2004 00:07									#6
	Re: Global Warming Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by spy14 The whole pollution thing in Civ is overdone, with irreversable and all to frequent terrain changes. I've modded my Civ3 to make buildings like banks reduce pollution to minimise the effects, but I think it needs to be a far smaller problem in Civ4. Most people have heard the theory that the sun is currently going through an active cycle and in 60 years time we'll all be worrying about global cooling, and now i've seen an interesting new theory at http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiap...reut/index.html I'm no scientist, but I do think theres enough evidence to reduce pollution effects in Civ4!!! Please.

I have eliminated pollution from the game, its just a pain in the butt to clean up.

Also global warming apparently only happens to grassland,plains terrain(well it also happens to forest and jungle squares, but then only to take out the forest or Jungle, so maybe a hedge against Global warming would be to forest all non city radius squares)

	13-05-2004 00:54									#7
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Not practical about the forests! Corruptions another good point, I tend to set the slider down to about 40% in all of my games.

	13-05-2004 03:25									#8
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Okay, going off memory here, but I'm almost positive I've seen it change tundra to grassland. This would've been pre-C3C, possibly pre-PTW and obviously many patches ago, but I vaguely remember sitting bolt upright and asking myself "Why the hell am I foresting all my tundras if they can actually be turned into useful tiles?!?"

I still forest all my tundra eventually, btw, just because I like the "arctic forest" look.

	13-05-2004 03:48									#9
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And, of course, because it's more productive. Tundra scores.

I miss a bonus tile with polar bears... I think. Don't remember if Civ2 actually had one. I think I confounded it with the old bonus "fur".

	13-05-2004 06:38									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Okay, going off memory here, but I'm almost positive I've seen it change tundra to grassland. This would've been pre-C3C, possibly pre-PTW and obviously many patches ago, but I vaguely remember sitting bolt upright and asking myself "Why the hell am I foresting all my tundras if they can actually be turned into useful tiles?!?" I still forest all my tundra eventually, btw, just because I like the "arctic forest" look.

Actually, I recently played on an almost all tundra map (which I made on purpose that way) with a Future Era game. After a nuclear war and after removing a lot of the forest, global warming slowly started to terraform my planet for me.

When on a tundra planet: "Use nukes, save the planet!"

	13-05-2004 11:26									#11
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Wouldn't you just get desert?

	13-05-2004 11:42									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Wouldn't you just get desert?

Eventually. Ever played an agricultural civ?

	13-05-2004 17:12									#13
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I think the polar resources were seals......

	13-05-2004 17:25									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Actually, I recently played on an almost all tundra map (which I made on purpose that way) with a Future Era game. After a nuclear war and after removing a lot of the forest, global warming slowly started to terraform my planet for me. When on a tundra planet: "Use nukes, save the planet!"

Not only on a tundra planet. If milking a game for a high score (not my beef, some do), "nuke the river" is a good way to increase the food base for a higher population. Pollution isn't a problem anymore, since the workers don't have anything else to do anymore and clean the mess in a few turns.

	13-05-2004 20:37									#15
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Can't say I've ever got more than a handful of tiles converted by global warming in a CivIII game. Never has it influenced any significant game decisions for me.

	13-05-2004 21:59									#16
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Planting forrests help! In most cases, the global warming will aim for forrests and jungles first. After I started to plant forrests in tiles that no city owned, the problem was almost eliminated for my part as the forrest could be replanted in one turn and grasslands/ plains was never touched anymore

	13-05-2004 22:30									#17
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Global warming has enough of an effect to make me mod the game. I wont get involved in a nuclear exchange though as the global warming goes ape (i have no idea how realistic this is, i think a nuclear winter is some sort of dust cloud )

	14-05-2004 03:51									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

A nuclear winter is where the smoke, dust and radiation from a wide-scale nuclear war is enough to blot out the sun, or make it very dim. A similar example is when a there is a very large volcanic explosion. The dust cloud reaches into the stratosphere, where its carryed alof for hundreds, even thousands of miles, darkening the sky in its trail. Nuclear explosions easily send tons of material up into the middle-atmosphere, where it is easily spread and held alof by jet streams,ect.

It would, technically..require ALOT of bombs to make a nuclear winter happen. I would think the radiation from all those bombs would kill much faster...

	14-05-2004 09:43									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Blademun It would, technically..require ALOT of bombs to make a nuclear winter happen. I would think the radiation from all those bombs would kill much faster...

Lets see them include death by radiation poisoning in Civ 4.

	14-05-2004 10:52									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ok now we need a glowing population icon.....shesh.

	14-05-2004 10:57									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson Ok now we need a glowing population icon.....shesh.

Reminds me of my glow-in-the-dark "I survived Three Mile Island" t-shirt.

	14-05-2004 11:26									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Reminds me of my glow-in-the-dark "I survived Three Mile Island" t-shirt.

Clever

	14-05-2004 19:36									#23
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Nah. Radioactive fallout is unlikely to cause the sort of ecological collapse that a proper nuclear winter would. Cancer rates would get horrid, true, but the real damage would be from the actual blasts (since they'd hit population centres and wipe out millions) and form any nuclear winter, which would amount to a miniature ice age.

	14-05-2004 19:47									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I handled the global warming effects by making pollution reversible. I modded the civ3.bic file so that deserts will go to jungle when they are affected by GW. This way, workers can then change the jungles back into grasslands. It's a cycle, so that the world doesn't change to all desert.

	15-05-2004 09:20									#25
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I missed being able to terraform like in Civ2.