14-05-2004 02:11									#1
	Questions on City Influence and National Borders Support Apolyton

I can't seem to find another post that talks about this so....

Why is it that other civs are able to establish cities within my national borders? I've been playing for a few turns and I've established a couple of cities with expansive borders. All of a sudden one of the AI opponents walks into my territory with a settler and slaps a city down like 2 tiles away from my capital city!!! This is well within my borders and I watched the AI settle the square. Is this a bug or are national borders just plain meaningless? In Civ 3 it's an act of war to establish a city within a rival empire's borders.

I'm not at war with this civ though... our diplomatic standing is actually good and we've never been at war. What's the deal? This city is too close to my capital city... I wouldn't even want to keep it if declared war and conquered it. It would just get in the way of my capital city's growth space. It's in the way now!

Also, another question... what determines the size of the city's influence? In Civ 3 it's all about culture, but building equivalents in CTP2 that normally build up culture in Civ 3 (such as the Shrine or Arena) just decrease unhappiness. How can I get my city's to expand their influence?

	14-05-2004 04:20									#2
	Re: Questions on City Influence and National Borders Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut Also, another question... what determines the size of the city's influence? In Civ 3 it's all about culture, but building equivalents in CTP2 that normally build up culture in Civ 3 (such as the Shrine or Arena) just decrease unhappiness. How can I get my city's to expand their influence?

The size of your national borders increases with the number of population points of the city.

	14-05-2004 08:16									#3
	Re: Questions on City Influence and National Borders Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut I can't seem to find another post that talks about this so.... Why is it that other civs are able to establish cities within my national borders? I've been playing for a few turns and I've established a couple of cities with expansive borders. All of a sudden one of the AI opponents walks into my territory with a settler and slaps a city down like 2 tiles away from my capital city!!! This is well within my borders and I watched the AI settle the square. Is this a bug or are national borders just plain meaningless? In Civ 3 it's an act of war to establish a city within a rival empire's borders. I'm not at war with this civ though... our diplomatic standing is actually good and we've never been at war. What's the deal? This city is too close to my capital city... I wouldn't even want to keep it if declared war and conquered it. It would just get in the way of my capital city's growth space. It's in the way now!

Technically, in the default (Unmodded) game, the AI cannot build on land that is already claimed by a city, but if there is a gap of neutral land within your borders, the AI can build a city there. It's the same in civ3 - in fact I would say that the AI does it a whole lot more...

In a CTP2 Mod like Cradle, the AI can settle anywhere it d@#n well pleases. IMO, this makes for a more interesting game (as the AI is programmed to be a warmongor anyhow). In those situations, set up a perimeter of high-vision/high movement units to track incoming interlopers - either kick them out or kill them with interceptor stacks.

To be honest, I find the incessant trespassing of the AI civs in civ3 more irritating (with a weakened ZOC rule), as they will agree to stop trespassing and then trespass again on the follwing turn. Its impossible to stop, and with infinite stack size ruling the field, practically worthless to attempt to blockade.

Modded CTP2 civs will also ignore trespassing agreements, but the ZOC rule allows a player to at least blockade them out.

	14-05-2004 19:03									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks to all for your responses... Interestingly enough, I installed the Activision patch and the AI doesn't build cities within my borders anymore. It does still try to build cities at the very edge of my borders and also they trespass still. That's fine, I just think it's a bad idea that they'd be able to set up shop in my domain.

	14-05-2004 19:04									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Also, what are the ranges for city influence? How big does a city have to get for an influence of 2 tiles out? 3 tiles out? How far out can it go?

Also, another random question... can you upgrade your units or do you have to trash all your ancient units when you reach the modern ages?

	14-05-2004 19:22									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut Also, what are the ranges for city influence? How big does a city have to get for an influence of 2 tiles out? 3 tiles out? How far out can it go?

In the unmodded game, I think your radius spreads when your city hits size 12 - I cannot recall what it is after that.

In a (Cradle) Modded game, its 8/20/36...

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut Also, another random question... can you upgrade your units or do you have to trash all your ancient units when you reach the modern ages?

There's no upgrade feature in the unmodded game - upgrading is part of the Modded experience.

hint...play with a Mod.

	14-05-2004 19:58									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

hehe i can see its a while since hex played unmodded

Radius 1 - pop 1-6
Radius 2 - pop 7-18
Radius 3 - pop 19-32
Radius 4 - pop 33-46
Radius 5 - pop 47+

	14-05-2004 20:38									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut Also, another random question... can you upgrade your units or do you have to trash all your ancient units when you reach the modern ages?

Unfortunately, as hexagonian is writing it, there is no unit updater for CtP2. Peter Trigg has designed a mod allowing the player and the AI to update their units and it was included in another mod called the Cradle. Peter has created a second version of his mod, called the Updater2, that I have adapted for the Super Apolyton Pack 2 (better known as the SAP2). I am currently testing the Updater2 with the latest CtP2 Playtest build and I will release it as soon as I have finish the game I am testing it with (if the said test does not reveal any problem or bug, of course). So far, the Updater2 runs fine.

The CtP2 playtest version of the Updater2 should work with a patched "vanilla" CtP2.

	15-05-2004 08:29									#9
	Tired of ads?

Thanks again to all for your responses... looks like I'm just going to have to embrace modding!

	15-05-2004 15:27									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut Thanks again to all for your responses... looks like I'm just going to have to embrace modding!

The SAP2 is very close to the original game, it is CtP2 as it should be.

The mod and the Updater2 can be downloaded from the directory.

You need (in this order):

- the 1.1 patch
- ModSwapper 1.2 or ModManager
- the SAP2 (don't forget to set DebugSlic to No)
- the Updater2 (the readme describes the installation process as well as the way to use the Updater2)

You will then have to run CtP2 game through ModSwapper or ModManager instead of the regular executable.

	15-05-2004 20:34									#11
	Modmanager Increase the size of your Attachments

Cool, where can I get modmanager?

	16-05-2004 07:17									#12
	Re: Modmanager Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by djpsychonaut Cool, where can I get modmanager?

Though J Bytheway will not agree with me ( ), I think you should start with ModSwapper as it is very easy to use (though it is not as powerful a tool as ModManager).

ModSwapper and ModManager can both be found here.