14-05-2004 02:45									#1
	Gamers get the boot?? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

bbc article about games industry

Does this matter? Will we be looking at 'Sims VII' for the rest of our computer game playing lives, or maybe worse?
Or will it bring much needed balance into what is a mostly young+male violent games market?

Will we take to the streets to vent our displeasure
Or lie in front of our consoles consuming whatever clap trap is shoveled our way

As this was specificaly talking about the games industry - i thought it would be more relevant here in 'other games' rather than 'off-topic' where there are many/mostly non-gamers, but please move it if it really doesn't belong here

	14-05-2004 03:00									#2
	Tired of ads?

This ought to be a good sign. It'll draw more people into the total gaming population. It certainly won't decrease the number of hardcore gamers or the demand for such games.

	14-05-2004 03:00									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What they are saying is that they need more business from the non-gamers. However, some non-gamers will turn into hardcore gamers, not all but some. The cycle will continue, but there will be more out there, especially for consoles. This is a business afterall.

	14-05-2004 03:03									#4
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what the heck is a casual gamer? when i have free time and a really fun game i play a lot, otherwise i don't. it's the same as any entertainment media - books, tv, music, etc. i weight my choices and pick the best one and the one i want to do most atm.

	14-05-2004 03:24									#5
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pg, id agree with u. definition of hardcore/casual gamer is kinda confusing.

I think they meant it in the most popular sense. casual gamer being you VS hardcore people who play game as a lifestyle. Playing EQ 10 hrs a day crazy folks or other games. Own all the system, plays em all etc.

I also have another definition used often by ppl like myself of hardcore and casual, totally independent of playing time, which is taking game like a sport, playing it for competition and strategy, vs just playing it. In this sense, someone who spent all their life playing street fighter can still be a "casual" player, while someone who played it for a week can be hardcore.

Either way, for both definition, the market is defintely leaning toward "casual". Theres market for mindless dumbed down game to entertains both casual players.

	14-05-2004 03:38									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I found this most disturbing

quote: Microsoft has declared its intent to make video games a dominant form of "social entertainment" and has launched a new range of online games for its Xbox console to appeal to the less hardcore gamer.

Even though I'm a pretty wicked pcgamer myself, I still enjoy other forms of entertainment (such as drinking beer till I pass out ) that are slightly more useful! I'd hate to think most people find the 'dominant' means of enjoying themselves is playing games on a console .

Most people are stupid, but we should try not keep them stupid aight .


About casual gamers, that basically doesn't exist. If you only play 30 minutes on a sunday evening you'll probably not even find out how a game functions let alone enjoy it! If I don't have the time to play then I simply don't play games!
Hardcore gamers don't all play 10 hours a day. There are weeks in which I hardly play my 'competitive game' SoF1 () but I'm still pretty serious about it when I do play! Playing against noobs simply isn't fun anymore when you're getting a bit good at the game.

Btw professional players that practice at least 5 hours a day aren't hardcore, they're freaks. The sheer boredom of playing 5 hours of Q3

	14-05-2004 03:49									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

for clarification i shouldnt even bother using the word harcore.

casual gamers exist. They dont play games. They know nothing about games, but the own a system or two. They pick up games completelly on a whim and on game cover perhaps. Good review maybe they heard from friends.

Then there are freaks. They buy all games (or maybe download) cause they play em all. Maybe 10 hours a day, the EQ freak types. No point in targetting market to these ppl because they play em all anyway.

Then there are competitive players. They play only games that they compete in what lil time they spend just on that game. No point in targetting market on them unless you expect a huge multiplayer player base.

The professionals you speak of, dont exist. Well there are some in korea that make living off of playing stracraft.

Last edited by Zero on 14-05-2004 at 03:55

	14-05-2004 03:56									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

there's some dumbasses like that fatality freak that made some good money with gaming.

I really hate those competitive or professional gamers whatever u like to call em

	14-05-2004 03:57									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Trajanus The sheer boredom of playing 5 hours of Q3

are u kidding me. Being able to play 5 hours of q3 would be awesome. Its so hard to arrange good players to play together for that long...

like u said so urself. playing scrubs is stupid an pointless. u think competitive player play for even an hour a day? Sure I could play my lil brother in SC2, but whats the point, I havent played a good game of SC2 since march madness....

When u get better it gets difficut to play more. Scheduling a session with people worth playing gets harder and harder (as there becomes less and less people worth playing)

	14-05-2004 03:58									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus there's some dumbasses like that fatality freak that made some good money with gaming. I really hate those competitive or professional gamers whatever u like to call em

u just said ur a competitive player urself.

	14-05-2004 04:05									#11
	Suffering from ads?

I'm a completist freak. I have to play every game in a series, do every quest, play with every tribe, test every character, try every strat... and then mod the game and go again.

Having said that, I know there are enough people who are like me that there will always be one or two new games that can be played for 100+ hours in a week without exhausting them. Thank god.

And if the new games I need don't come... well, there's PLENTY of good old ones on my HD

-Jam

	14-05-2004 04:07									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

hmmm u dont fit in my category. because u dont buy most games.


u goto freak section because u have that sheep in the avatar.

	14-05-2004 04:11									#13
	Tired of ads?

* DrSpike mutters something about Sunday gamers.

	14-05-2004 04:15									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Do you still have my copy of the Sims I lent you last Saturday night, Spikie?

-Jam

	14-05-2004 04:17									#15
	Got spare money?

i think sunday gamers are better than pennyarcade types.

That guy gabe whined so much when couple of guys i know in seattle kicked his ass.... He thought just like trajnus, more playing time = more skill

	14-05-2004 04:18									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Do you still have my copy of the Sims I lent you last Saturday night, Spikie? -Jam

Why Drspike, shame on u. I never play sim. (Quickly goes to find the thread where Zero confessed to having played the sims)

	14-05-2004 04:29									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh I forgot, he gave it back early on Monday morning

-Jam

	14-05-2004 04:54									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes I flew to Germany just to get a copy of the Sims. Then I flew there again to give it back. Plausible.

	14-05-2004 08:20									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I knew your secret, shameful love for the Sims ran deep, but not that deep. You suprised us all!

	14-05-2004 08:44									#20
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DrSpike

You should have gone to Russia and get The Sims with all its expansions for maybe 30 roubles.

	14-05-2004 11:59									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I thought it was a lot of trouble just to play on Sunday, but he simply had to try the German language packs (apparantly one of the sofas is a different colour)

-Jam

	14-05-2004 12:50									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Quite frankly, DrSpike's obsession with the Sims is rather disturbing.

	14-05-2004 14:21									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

Damn you both. I hope you rot in Sim Hell, when they release that expansion.

	14-05-2004 14:23									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Note he says when, not if. That means he's been checking insider sources again to find out what the next expansion will be

Spikie

-Jam

	14-05-2004 14:52									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Zero u just said ur a competitive player urself.

Yes as in I'm very good at it and I play from time to time (however unfortunately I usually have huge lag and even huger packetloss), but I don't play it to be the best. I play for fun, and not to beat everyone else like lots of people do.

Some friends of mine who play Q3 organize LANs about twice a year and when I see them at the LAN almost the only thing they do is play Q3; all weekend! . Also how serious they take the game doesn't look very healthy to me: they're screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs when playing.
That is definately not how I play

	14-05-2004 20:32									#26
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Hmmm, i get the impression we will just end up in front of our consoles playing whatever we're given

The terms casual and hardcore have another meaning to me, one that i feel the main industry is well aware of.

A hardcore gamer is someone who expects certain things from his/her game, and wont hesitate to communicate their displeasure if its not there.

A casual gamer is someone who has no expectations apart from maybe what they've been told in a magazine or on the cover of the game itself, and even if those expectations turn out to be false - they will most likely just forget about it and go do/play something else.

For the companies investing the millions needed to make a game(apparantly?), i can see who they'd rather have as their main customers

And i think we should give Dr.Spike a break - after all his unhealthy infatuation with the Sims might just be showing us the way of our gaming futures , ahead of his time thats all

	14-05-2004 20:49									#27
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I am indeed ahead of my time, as I was one of the first to realise the damage the wave of Sunday gamer Sims players would bring.

	14-05-2004 21:20									#28
	Tired of ads?

True, I was in a tragic state of apathy brought on by having to play through half a dozen console titles to find one decent one

Still i suppose the tradegy of your story is that that early revelation ultimately cost you your gaming freedom - assimilation into that which you most detested was a for-gone conclusion! I guess a case of know thy enemy gone wrong - and your future prospects of escaping back to true gaming nivarna are getting slimmer with each step the New Gaming Industry takes

I think as long as the big publishers dont get lazy and just churn out one 3D movie tie-in after another, then it could be very healthy to produce games that try to be more inclusive. I'm not holding my breath over if we will see a much needed breath of fresh air though - from my point of view my game playing needs will get bleaker for sure. Luckily, as Jamski mentioned, there are many games already made for the likes of me

	15-05-2004 09:49									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Yes as in I'm very good at it and I play from time to time (however unfortunately I usually have huge lag and even huger packetloss), but I don't play it to be the best. I play for fun, and not to beat everyone else like lots of people do. Some friends of mine who play Q3 organize LANs about twice a year and when I see them at the LAN almost the only thing they do is play Q3; all weekend! . Also how serious they take the game doesn't look very healthy to me: they're screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs when playing. That is definately not how I play

you and ur friends dont sound like competitive player at all then. u guys cant be good.

first step to being a good competitive player is developing good sportsmanship (although there a few cocky players). ur friends are most likely scrubs or comeplete n00bs that are wanna be hardcores.

in any genre of games, ive never seen good players that act like what u describe of ur friends being. its just unimaginable to see scrubs like that be good at the same time.