22-05-2004 08:35									#31
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A getaround for this problem is to mod all invisible units to have hidden nationality like the ninja in the Sengoku conquests scenario. This way, accidental attacks on invisible units will not cause war.

	23-05-2004 21:40									#32
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Well, that's a pretty nice workaround- only problem is when they are etected they'll be hunted and killed... but maybe that'll be fun.

Also, does anyone have any rumors (at least) on if/when a final patch is slated beyond 1.22?

Is there evena shred of hope for a few of the final bugs to be killed?

	23-05-2004 21:46									#33
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Didnt the Americans accidentaly sink a Russian sub some time ago???

Simple solution anyhow...

1. Don't build subs
2. Don't make allies

	23-05-2004 22:24									#34
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3. Don't play Conquests.

	23-05-2004 22:47									#35
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Man, the civ copmmunity seems a little out of joint lately...

I'd really like to see one more patch that doesn't break stuff and fixes a few more bugs...

	24-05-2004 00:00									#36
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Sub bug fix now!

This is one of the big things that need to be fixed. This, barbarian behaviour, and AI failure to use armies are the biggest problems I can think of right now.

	24-05-2004 04:54									#37
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But is there going to BE another patch? And about when? Things are dying down in the civ3 community it seems like.

	24-05-2004 12:07									#38
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A "final" patch has been promised for the summer.

	24-05-2004 21:11									#39
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Thank goodness! Even if it's mere unsubstantiated rumor I'll take it! I'll take whatever I can get.

C'mon o ye gods, one last patch to fix the few last scraps.

	25-05-2004 02:57									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist A "final" patch has been promised for the summer.

Did they tell the year?

	28-05-2004 20:24									#41
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Well- uh yeah. Anyway I'm trying the hidden nationalities subs for now- I upped their prices a bit though too. For kicks I made privateers advance to the normal submarine. After all, that's how the AI will use them now.

	28-05-2004 21:49									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Did they tell the year?

I think it's safe to assume that if it doesn't come this summer, it won't ever.

	29-05-2004 20:38									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist It was fixed in PTW. It returned in C3C, and has not been fixed again despite several patches.

Well, that explains it, then.

	31-05-2004 02:48									#44
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At least we can make the Subs defence 8, or 6 so if they are accidentally hit they have a chance to survive.

Making them hidden nationality is a good idea.
It seems they can stealth attack against subs, which seems silly to me so in my 7 AGES of MAN mod i've only allowed them to attack surface subs - subs can see other subs , so they would be able to escape before a stealth attack was launched on them.

	31-05-2004 02:54									#45
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Hidden nationality of subs. Interesting. How often have subs been used as such in practice though?

	31-05-2004 12:37									#46
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"Hidden nationality of subs. Interesting. How often have subs been used as such in practice though?"

U-boats. The Germans, right? But do we KNOW it was the Germans? EVERY U-Boat, was German, or was it...?



...i'm going to bed, i apologize for my behavior

	31-05-2004 14:33									#47
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Could have been Captain Nemo's Nautilus I suppose.

Its possible to have hidden nationality, but I'm wondering about the idea of state sponsored submariner privateers. It could be interesting for game mechanics.

	01-06-2004 00:54									#48
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I'm playing a game right now with this modded in. One of themany little details I've added- so I'll see how it goes. Almost to that era now.

Made privateers free of support- boy that was a mistake! AI went crazy!

	01-06-2004 01:06									#49
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The AI loves free stuff, doesn't it?

	01-06-2004 11:41									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist The AI loves free stuff, doesn't it?

Doesn't everyone?

free is tasty

	02-06-2004 02:32									#51
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Added in two wonders for fun:

The Silk Road and what I called: GREAT LEADER- basically with fascism you can build a hitler and get free armies every 10 turns until fission.

The AI got both wonders. Hoping it'll do something with those armies... we'll see.

Still not QUITE to having enough subs to see if the changes helped or not...

	02-06-2004 13:25									#52
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quote: Originally posted by dearmad Added in two wonders for fun: The Silk Road and what I called: GREAT LEADER- basically with fascism you can build a hitler and get free armies every 10 turns until fission. The AI got both wonders. Hoping it'll do something with those armies... we'll see. Still not QUITE to having enough subs to see if the changes helped or not...

hi ,

do you mind posting a save ones in a while

thanks in advance

have a nice day

	03-06-2004 20:54									#53
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Well the AI with the GREAT LEADER got an army going around the map- but didn't use to press very many attacks. Not sure what I think about that wonder.

Anyhoo- the hidden nationality for subs sorta sucked, here's why:

Because subs can stealth attack it means the only way to protect a transport (in a time of PEACE!) is to surround it with ships, otherwise the AI subs (which were everywhere) take out anything they can. I just spent a great deal of resources cleaning out the eastern sea of Dutch subs. The constant warfare at sea is wearying and just not fun for me.

It's a strange drain on the economy and has made technology slow down too- I don't think anyone'll be launching any spaceship before the game is over- I'm just developing fission at 1982 or so. I did raise the cost to some techs though to slow down certain favorite eras (age of sail, wwi moment, some areas of the middle ages).

Well I DID lower resource occurances so OIL and other resources can be a problem, but that shouldn't stop the march of progress!

More later- but I just hope they patch this problem in the final patch at this point.

You want a save game? About what era? here's my current point:

Attachment: mygame.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	03-06-2004 23:36									#54
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hi ,

"" Well the AI with the GREAT LEADER got an army going around the map- but didn't use to press very many attacks. Not sure what I think about that wonder. ""

sometimes the AI uses them to its limit , sometimes the AI needs two or three before they start to use one , ....

it depends how many civs there are , if its you and a couple civs , then the AI is more likely to use its army , other wise the AI will be carefull with it , ....

have a nice day

	09-06-2004 20:48									#55
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Common guys.
Sub-bug is really not such big issue.

Things like broken barbarian AI are.
(going just for targets at NW-SE axis)

If I would need to choose between them sug-bug would be at low priority.

	09-06-2004 20:57									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I got used to using them in PTW. They are an extremeley potent weapon, as you could park a dozen or so of them right outside cities of countries without them knowing, or follow their fleets around undetected. Conquests added the feature of the sub being able to choose its target in a stack (which is brilliant), but this bug mars that.

Hearing this, I just realized that, IMO, the bug should stay unfixed. That's a massive exploit, being able to blockade a harbor of someone you don't have an RoP with.

	09-06-2004 20:58									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph It's not only subs, Arrian. It's stealth units in general. I have seen the Byzantines declare war on the Abbasids a couple of times, because they ran with their settler/spearman pairs into Assassins (who were after me, because I was as Germany just there with own "business" ). Highly annoying, and it should be fixed ASAP.

Actually, that seems like a good outcome (war between Byzantines and Abassids). A nice way to trigger it without fixed alliances.

	09-06-2004 21:01									#58
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quote: Originally posted by dearmad Because subs can stealth attack it means the only way to protect a transport (in a time of PEACE!) is to surround it with ships, otherwise the AI subs (which were everywhere) take out anything they can. I just spent a great deal of resources cleaning out the eastern sea of Dutch subs. The constant warfare at sea is wearying and just not fun for me.

Sounds quite realistic and very fun.

quote: It's a strange drain on the economy

Makes sense, though.