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DarkCloud
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of Lists
Jul 2000
time: 05:36
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Introduction
Welcome Aboard to {The List} for Civilization IV.
Here's the section for General Ideas, Ideas that either transcend all the other categories, or just don't quite fit under any of the other topics.
Thanks for reading,
-List Threadmaster DarkCloud
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Summary
TODO
----
Related Threads
NOTE TO SELF- EDITED UP TO *****
TODO http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=115067 Growth-Should It Be Related to Food... frenzyfol
TODO http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=114699 Terrorism... grap1705
TODO http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=115588 Advisors and Magistrates... skycommando
TODO http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...482#post3026482 polypheus
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The Ideas
1.0.0- Radical Ideas; Game Structure
2.0.0- Animation/Theming/Graphics
3.0.0- Automation/Programming
4.0.0- Characterization/Historical/Realistic
5.0.0- Maps/Display
The List
1.1.0 Scenario/ Civ-Splitting/ Complete Reworking of Civ-Rules/Structure
*From another thread, the first time you play Civ4, only a few large, major civs are available to start with, such as Chinese, Semites, Indoeuropeans. To keep from having the same exact group of civs for the whole game, there would be breakoffs. Indoeuropeans can split into Romans, Celts, Germans, Slavs, Indians, etc. The idea for winning the game would be to have the culture group created by you and your breakoffs control the world. On your next game, either the first generation of breakoffs or all breakoffs for that last game are available to start with. The civs you identify with would tend to be created because of the civs you previously chose. Ingame, give the player a message when a minor civ breaks off, asking if you want it to become a playable civ for future games. When this happens, give the player a readout of the civ's stats to edit if desired, or stats could be filled out later in the editor.
*Traits chosen for your political party become standard traits for breakoff civs. Maybe combine and balance political traits with civ traits.
*Semites can split into Hebrews, Egyptians, Hyksos, Berbers, Babylonians. Hebrews split into Israelites, Arabs, Midianites, Edomites. Judah can split off from Israel. Maybe Israel splits into a separate civ for each of Jacob's wives. Maybe Rachel and Leah start as one splitoff. Leah splits into Judah, Simeon, Reuben, etc. Judah splits into Zarah, Phares, and Shelah, or Sephards and Ashkenazi. Arabs split into Libyans, Saudis, Iraqis.
*There can be confederacies, such as Switzerland, and the Philipines can be treated as one too. A confederacy is a group of minor tribes that start near each other. It is assumed that they will use diplomacy to merge eventually. The Philipines would only show up on a large Far East or random map. They could also have their own scenario. The Swiss could be a cohesive civ on any map or a confederacy on a large random map. They could have their own scenario or be part of a German scenario.
*Using a similar system to GalCiv, have standard traits for each civ plus the player chooses extra traits for a political party or a specific leader, and these bonus traits could be lost with a change of politics. The player can set a number of points for all civs in the game.
Macroculturegroups: Africa, Asia, America, Europe.
Africa: East, North, West, Central.
Asia: Arab, Mesopotamia, Central, Far East, Caucasus, Southeast, India, Himilayas, Palestine.
America: Eastern Woodlands, Great Plains, Southwest, California, Mesoamerica, South America
Europe: Iberia, German, Celtic, British Isles, Scandinavia, Slavic, Italic, Balkan, Alps.
Independant medium- level culture groups: Pacific, Arctic, Siberia (with overlap).
Currently I say anywhere from 8 to 64 Major civs and about 200 minors. I don't care if the civs I like have uniqueness, but I want most of them to have plenty of city names.
(Ed: This idea would work as a special scenario for civ and would really change the game mechanics. Personally, I don't think it would add much, but it would certainly inject a more arcade-feel into the game and be something completely new!)
-Brent
In pregame setup, be able to specify that each culture group start on its own landmass, or group them by hemisphere. Maybe be able to give each civ its own landmass. Be more precise with culturally linked starting locations. Maybe have an optional small cookie cutter starting region for each civ that could be inserted into random maps, but on large maps make sure most of thje map is random and disallow cookie cutter starting regions on small maps.
-Brent
1.2.0 Weather
I think it would be kewl to add climate values to terrain types and setting a probability to that tile that weather behaves a certain way during an action and possibly during a non-action. Having earthquakes, storms, tornadoes, tsunami's could be cool, especially during a battle. There would have to be an indicator for you to know what that probability is at that time
-Japher
1.3.0 Events
Events
-El Awrence
1.4.0 Border Wars
Border skirmishes, international incidents, whatever you want to call them. Reduce the chance of an AI declaring war when that exploring warrior gets knocked off or settler team gets bopped from 100% to, well, something less. Basically, it gives the victim a chance to avoid severe harm by backing down, while retaining the opportunity to open up a can on the perpetrator, depending on the situation. It also adds an element of decision, not only with the obvious "Carthage just knocked off my settler, but do I really want to tangle with mercs before I have iron?", but also with how close you may want to tread to the Celt borders and whether or not you want to chance Persia declaring war by hitting the settlers about that grab that juicy spot you've had your eye on.
Multiple incidents between two civs would have a cumulative effect, increasing the chance of war each time. Attacks within the victim civ's borders would be grounds for automatic declaration, to close some exploit possibilities. Non-war declaring attacks would not be eligible for MGL generation, and possibly not for promotions, either, though I could see a case for allowing them. I have no idea how much tweaking it would take for the AI to be able to use it effectively, but it doesn't seem like it would be much.
-Solomwi
1.5.0 Multistates Idea (A la Europa Universalis)
You start on a POPULATED world with 50-100 tribes.But you will choose only 7-8 main nations (like in "European Universalis"), who will actively develope.All others are just tribes whose business is only protect their home.
Every tribe has it's own special units , techs (CONNECTED to global tech tree) and buildings.
-$TaLuHgPad
1.6.0 Multinational Corporations
I think a great feature that could be impliment in Civ 4 is the appearance of Multi National Corperations - they are after all the pinnicle of globalisation.
Basically my way of implementing would be allowing an advanced City in the Modern age have a small chance each turn that a MNC will setup HQ in thier city.
The Following things will be eligibility Criteria:
The Presence of a Bank
The Discovery of a certain modern age tech
No resistors
City size at least 7
While the following would significantly give you better chance of attracting an MNC:
The Presence of a Stock Exchange
The Presence of any Economic wonders (Ie Adam Smiths,Internet ect)
A High amount of Trade in the City
A larger population
The presence of capitalist specialists
The peace rating of a Country (ie the less war, or preferably no war the better)
The peace rating of the City (Is it on a warfront? has it been in resistance or disorder?)
A high national GNP
The City having Capital status
Possibly there could be more factors, either way the better the city is geared up trade wise, and the stability overall of the location will give a good chance on any given of getting an MNC. MNC's will provide several trade benefits, at it's simplest they could provide Gold Per Turn benefits, possibly they also could be prerequisites to a Wonder like Wall Street for example. This isnt a gimmick, MNC's are absolutly crucial to the commercial sucess of nations and would compliment a Builder style of play giving players an extra factor to consider.
-Worthington
1.7.0 "Managed" Empires over "Expansive" Empires
Anyone find it annoying that you can't have a small, powerful civilization. As time goes on the Civ. with the most land wins. Management should have a greater impact than geographical size. At least that's how I feel
I think that this can exist in many ways:
- How divided your empire is (the wider...)
- Frictions (intern and extern) because of conflicts with foreign ideologies
- Management (think of the Turcs at the end)
- Cost of newly acquired territory (think of Israel vs Palestine, Soviets in Afghanistan...)
- etc.
-Andromel/Trifna
1.7.1 Traits as a way toward "Managed" Empires
Micro management trait: Empires with this trait try to manage all details of there empire. As a result does it take them longer to make new cities(settles needs much longer to build) and shall they improve there land at a slower speed. But this micro management improves the efficienty of there cities and terrain improvements allowing them to produce more food/trade.
city state trait: this empire is completely build arround 1 or a few gigantic cities who have a great amount of autonomy. The huge amount of autonomy of the cities makes there population very happy and let your cities develop there own culture and science increasing the effect of both. But people love there own city so much that it is very hard to convince them to move to another city dramatically lowering the cultural assimilation rate of newly conquered cities.
-kolpo
1.8.0 Dark Ages
Now these may have been suggested before (dark ages almost definitley) but just in case they haven't I figured I'd submit them.
Right, firstly I was thinking that all civilizations have their downs as well as ups, so what about a negative version of the golden age?
ie, if you suffer many defeats, get into financial trouble (ie. you have to sell off quite a few buildings) you get put into a dark age, where tech slows, cash flow dries up, production grinds to a halt etc.
Now this could make the game quite punishing, so maybe only include it at higher difficulty levels and maybe make it much less likely after the industrial revolution (or maybe replace it with depression, which only affects finances).
-Comrade Raoul
2.1.0 Animated Leaderheads
Please, get them out. Hundreds of megabytes for NOTHING. I'd find the atmosphere much more immersive with a simple realistic portrait and richer messages (as opposed to the jokey junk in Civ III).
-Fosse/GePap/DarkCloud and hopefully many more players
3.1.0 Game Reporting
Be able to specify in what order your cities will report: chronological by founding, geographical, alphabetical, by size, by what is reported, other criteria. Have similar options for units.
-Brent
3.2.0 Unit Automation
Be able to automate any aspect of the game.
-Brent
3.3.0 PDA Capability
It would be well taht Civ IV possess utilities for PDAs, in this it could pick up information of the game and with tools, continues playing and later update them to the PC.
Personally I have created applications in this sense or to allow the use of the code of autosave so that the user can take out more yield of the own game by means of the creation of such applications (always without spirit of lucre).
-Amom76
3.4.0 Statistical Editing
Civ IV should contain more stadistical establishing and intimized ranking, as well as, graphics of progression and comparative of the same one and even others as production of shields or culture of a certain city.
-Amom76
3.5.0 Statistics
Civ IV should posses a database of the games and to offer summaries, stadistics and graphs of differents aspects of the game during the game.
The database of game of Civ II are very limited, I don't only want to know how many points I obtained in a game. I would like to see a classification of my orderly game for territories or literacy, culture.. and even to observe then in a graph.
-Amom76
3.6.0 Tailoring the Game at Startup
Be able to enter in the desired game length and have the game make suggestions for pregame options. The game can take into account game lengths and options for games you've previously played. It can also scale research and build times for you, and movement rates.
Have the game make suggestions during setup based on the options you've chosen so far, like which civs would be good rivals for the one you're playing as based on history and game characteristics. Let it make suggestions concerning number of civs and terrain.
-Brent
3.7.0 Pattern of City Development
I think it is really hard and boring to build in EVERY city "defendingUnit1-barrack-granary-marketplace-cityWalls-temple-factory-bank-..." scheme. So my idea is to make some pattern and add to city option "pattern option" - you choose one of the saved patterns and your city developes by this pattern scheme.
-$TaLuHgPad
3.8.0 Improving City Governors
When a City is managed by the Governer there should be an option to switch to building a Worker if the city will lose a Citizen due to low food. There should be 3 options, Automatically Switch, Prompt or No Action
-centimetre
3.9.0 Growing City Radius
I'd like to see the city radius not be based on the traditional "two squares away" map. it should grow as the city does. if the map is going to be three dimensional, this shouldn't be a problem.
-self biased
4.1.0 Realistic Population Lists
Have one settler unit represent only 1000 people, or be able to change this in the editor, along with the amount of land a square represents and such things.
-Brent
4.2.0 Food Bars for Units
Settlers should have a "food bar", like a unit's power bar, and this should deplete for each turn the settler is outside of its borders. 7 or 8 turns and an ancient settler is dead.
As technology improves we should get new settlers that last longer, and units like galleons where settlers can ride without their food bar depleting.
Such a mechanism would make for a more rational expansion of empires.
-Heffalump
I think settlers should deplete their food bar every turn even if they're on a galleon. For a long time, people on open sea had big problems with scorbic. Since galleons are faster then settlers on land, this alone is an improvement.
-Max Sinister
4.3.0 Plagues and Famines
The original Civ had these. I'd like to see them come back, in a more rigorous way. Plagues should spread along trade routes and linger, depressing commerce and construction and occasionally killing off a population point. Medicine, Chemistry, and Sanitation would all help combat plagues.
In addition to people-plagues, there should be blights and hordes of locusts and rats that strike at grain-stores. Pottery would help reduce these. Construction would help more. Electricity (refrigeration) would help a whole lot.
-StefanJ
How about an exchange of diseases when you encounter civs from another landmass?
-Brent
You could probably get away with having plagues start most often in ports and jungle cities.
-StefanJ
5.1.0 Map Display
Be able to choose what to show and what not to show on the replay map: terrain, cities, etc. Be able to limit the replay map to areas you have explored. Be able to watch explored territory grow.
-Brent
5.2.0 Exploration/Contacts Become Outdated
I'd like to see contacts with certain other civs being limited to a certain amount of time. It would simply run out after a certain time, and you would have to establish or buy the contact again.
This may be affected by:
Distance between my capital and the other civ's capital - the further we're apart, the shorter the contact period will be.
Trade - if we're trading resources, contact should remain stable.
Borders - if we have a common border, contact should remain stable.
Embassies - if we have established an embassy, contact should remain stable.
Technology - if we have certain (communication-type) techs, contact should remain stable.
Units present - I figure each civilization would have a supply / contact radius, determined by transportation and food technologies. Rivers and coastlines would be natural channels of supply and communication.
Outside of this, units would have to forage (slow movement, susceptible to disease and disaster) and communication would be spotty. A unit that stumbles on another civ would get only a brief traveller's tale sort of report.
Alliance - Could expire after a certain amount of turns without contact between the two civilizations.
This will make contacts with your immediate neighbours more valueable, since you need them to (re)gain contact with their neighbours.
Also, it will encourage trade.
And - it may become profitable to establish a colony (city) far away to keep in touch with other civs.
This may also influence your World Map -- some detailed information will simple go away after some time.
-BigFurryMonster/StefanJ
5.3.0 Ease of Game Display
You see, in civ, You don't know what game is the sav, until You open it. I think it would be very nice if it was like in Imperialism II,
when if You click on a sav, You get information about it, and a screenshot of the game.
-Heresson
Conclusion
Well, as you have read, the General Ideas have been varied and broad, contribuited by a lot of people with differing opinions. I have tried to ensure that most of the ideas did not contradict each other, but there are many options for Firaxis to follow if it so wishes.
The main demand, I think, was to make the game more accessible and more streamlined, whether it be with images of the map displayed for saves, or for streamlining the production process with a system of saved 'patterns' or just an expanded "city manager/governor" system a la that imployed by Alpha Centauri.
Respectfully Compiled: DarkCloud
Last edited by DarkCloud on 27-12-2004 at 23:12
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Brent
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Be able to easily play a whole game on a small map in one sitting. If you have a day when you can spend the whole day playing, be able to finish a game on a large map in one day. Makwe it possible for most people to usually be able to finish a game on a large map in one week.
Be able to specify in what order your cities will report: chronological by founding, geographical, alphabetical, by size, by what is reported, other criteria. Have similar options for units.
Be able to automate any aspect of the game, but not everything at the same time. Be able to automate up to a certain percent of your units but not more.
Have one settler unit represent only 1000 people, or be able to change this in the editor, along with the amount of land a square represents and such things.
Have the option for a more detailed pregame setup than the current one, alongside the current one. Be able to alter the names of rival civs, rulers, and cities in the detailed setup.
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Brent
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Be able to choose what to show and what not to show on the replay map: terrain, cities, etc. Be able to limit the replay map to areas you have explored. Be able to watch explored territory grow.
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bob rulz
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Wait, so is this just a thread where I can post my ideas for Civ 4?
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bob rulz
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...okay, I'm gonna write something now...maybe...eh, of all the thousands of ideas I have, I can only think of like five at the moment, and none of them belong here, so...It'll come back to me eventually.
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Solomwi
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Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:36
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Border skirmishes, international incidents, whatever you want to call them. Reduce the chance of an AI declaring war when that exploring warrior gets knocked off or settler team gets bopped from 100% to, well, something less. Basically, it gives the victim a chance to avoid severe harm by backing down, while retaining the opportunity to open up a can on the perpetrator, depending on the situation. It also adds an element of decision, not only with the obvious "Carthage just knocked off my settler, but do I really want to tangle with mercs before I have iron?", but also with how close you may want to tread to the Celt borders and whether or not you want to chance Persia declaring war by hitting the settlers about that grab that juicy spot you've had your eye on.
Multiple incidents between two civs would have a cumulative effect, increasing the chance of war each time. Attacks within the victim civ's borders would be grounds for automatic declaration, to close some exploit possibilities. Non-war declaring attacks would not be eligible for MGL generation, and possibly not for promotions, either, though I could see a case for allowing them. I have no idea how much tweaking it would take for the AI to be able to use it effectively, but it doesn't seem like it would be much.
I think this would add depth to the game, in both reality and strategy. Plus, think of the positive ramifications for the sub bug. 
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Has anyone mentioned weather, and where would that be?
I think it would be kewl to add climate values to terrain types and setting a probability to that tile that weather behaves a certain way during an action and possibly during a non-action. Having earthquakes, storms, tornadoes, tsunami's could be cool, especially during a battle. There would have to be an indicator for you to know what that probability is at that time.. maybe that's a bad idea. |
I like it, but many, I know, will not. Volcanoes from C3C were sort of like this, and they were not a huge hit. Some players just really hate random events that can mess up their plans. However, I think that if weather and other such events become an integral part of the game (like the randomness of combat), those players would find it more acceptable, since each "roll of the dice" would be less critical (just ask Aeson how much a volcanic eruption can hurt!).
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Amom76
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Huelva
Oct 2002
time: 06:36
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Who of us it doesn't continue thinking of a game after playing? Who doesn't it analize and reanalize the game that is playing in those moments? When we go in bus or meter, don't we think strategies for the game? Much more if it is a PBEM or we are waiting a new session in that multiplayer game.
What game of the market does it allow you continue playing without being connected to the PC?
The use of the PDAs pr Pockets View is very extended in our time. It could take advantage this support to play offline Civ IV it could create a database of the game in course to be able to analyzed outside of the PC and even to continue playing in mass transit, for example.
It would be well taht Civ IV possess utilities for PDAs, in this it could pick up information of the game and with tools, continues playing and later update them to the PC.
Personally I have created applications in this sense or to allow the use of the code of autosave so that the user can take out more yield of the own game by means of the creation of such applications (always without spirit of lucre).
Already in PC, Civ IV should contain tools for the later very useful analysis in game PBEM or multiplayer.Encounter something lacking to he rop. Civ as for tools of help to the player.
Civ IV should contain more stadistical establishing and intimized ranking, as well as, graphics of progression and comparative of the same one and even others as production of shields or culture of a certain city.
Civ IV should posses a database of the games and to offer summaries, stadistics and graphs of differents aspects of the game during the game.
The database of game of Civ II are very limited, I don't only want to know how many points I obtained in a game. I would like to see a classification of my orderly game for territories or literacy, culture.. and even to observe then in a graph.
Many of us play democratics game, but we don't have any support to wake it. Civ IV should contain this type of games, so much multiplayer as in solitary way with minister controlled by the PC.
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Heffalump
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Germany
Apr 2002
time: 00:36
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Settlers should have a "food bar", like a unit's power bar, and this should deplete for each turn the settler is outside of its borders. 7 or 8 turns and an ancient settler is dead.
As technology improves we should get new settlers that last longer, and units like galleons where settlers can ride without their food bar depleting.
Such a mechanism would make for a more rational expansion of empires.
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Max Sinister
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@Heffalump: I think settlers should deplete their food bar every turn even if they're on a galleon. For a long time, people on open sea had big problems with scorbic. Since galleons are faster then settlers on land, this alone is an improvement.
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Brent
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In pregame setup, be able to specify that each culture group start on its own landmass, or group them by hemisphere. Maybe be able to give each civ its own landmass. Be more precise with culturally linked starting locations. Maybe have an optional small cookie cutter starting region for each civ that could be inserted into random maps, but on large maps make sure most of thje map is random and disallow cookie cutter starting regions on small maps.
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Brent
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Maybe the standard plugin starting region is only for human players. The regions for the Middle East and the Mediterranean interlock such that they all together can be plugged into an otherwise random map. Each plugin starting region could use special versions of the standard terrains, maybe some unique resources. If the start region is a peninsula coming from the north in the real world, it probably would have to be that way in the game. A real world peninsula could be in the game as an island. Islands in the real world would always be islands.
Rome's start region could be either the entire Italian peninsula or just a city radius of grassland with some hills.I think the Greek peninsula should always be treated as a peninsula. The Japanese would get their entire country. The Aztecs would get a lake and valley surrounded by landlocked mountains. The Iroquois would get a landlocked region including the great lakes. Egypt would be desert with a river and delta and would always be connected to more land to the south. Babylon would be landlocked surrounded by two rivers. France would be a lump of land connected to two isthmuses. The English would get the British Isles as a whole.
The Arabs would get a desert peninsula, or possibly just a desert city radius. The Incas would get mountains with more land to the east and an ocean to the west and mayne a lake somewhere. The Mayans would get a jungle city radius. Scandinavia would get a large mountainous peninsula connected to the east plus a smaller peninsula connected to the south with water between the two. The Spanish would get the Iberian peninsula.
The other Civ3 civs wouldn't have standard plugin regions.
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Heffalump
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Germany
Apr 2002
time: 00:36
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quote:
@Heffalump: I think settlers should deplete their food bar every turn even if they're on a galleon. For a long time, people on open sea had big problems with scorbic. Since galleons are faster then settlers on land, this alone is an improvement. |
Yes but my point with the galleons is that it would better simulate how humans expanded and colonised.
Let's say that in general a settler has a food bar that does not allow him to move more than 5 or 6 turns beyond his borders. This would help simulate gradual expansion.
On the other hand once we reach the age of seafaring we now have ships that transport setters all over the world. So we allow a settler's food bar to remain constant while on the ship.
When he gets off of the ship it will immediately begin to deplete again. This will force settler's to colonize the coasts of foreign lands first and gradually move inland -- just like it worked through history.
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Max Sinister
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There once was a colony in America (Roanoke) which was founded by some Brits, but they all starved. But I guess if that was included in Civ4, many people would scream "unfair!"
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StefanJ
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PLAGUES AND FAMINE
The original Civ had these. I'd like to see them come back, in a more rigorous way. Plagues should spread along trade routes and linger, depressing commerce and construction and occasionally killing off a population point. Medicine, Chemistry, and Sanitation would all help combat plagues.
In addition to people-plagues, there should be blights and hordes of locusts and rats that strike at grain-stores. Pottery would help reduce these. Construction would help more. Electricity (refrigeration) would help a whole lot.
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Brent
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How about an exchange of diseases when you encounter civs from another landmass?
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StefanJ
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You could probably get away with having plagues start most often in ports and jungle cities.
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Brent
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After actually reading the details of that idea, I like it.
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StefanJ
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"And - it may become profitable to establish a colony (city) far away to keep in touch with other civs."
If you really push the lost-contact idea, you may also have trouble keeping in touch with that colony!
"Master of Orion" had a similar feature. If one of your colonies was in communication range of one of theirs, you could talk. Sometimes a colony would be lost, severing the connection.
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StefanJ
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Contact and supply would go together.
I figure each civilization would have a supply / contact radius, determined by transportation and food technologies. Rivers and coastlines would be natural channels of supply and communication.
Outside of this, units would have to forage (slow movement, susceptible to disease and disaster) and communication would be spotty. A unit that stumbles on another civ would get only a brief traveller's tale sort of report.
I think this is being discussed in other threads, so I'll leave it at that.
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19-05-2004 07:06
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