20-05-2004 01:35									#61
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here's the perfect car for you, a Toyota Echo:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymo...yota_Echo.shtml

39 mpg highway, 33mpg city

It's quite a bit worse on the environment though, its emissions are worse despite higher mileage.

	20-05-2004 01:36									#62
	Remove this text

Diesel isn't tough to find, about 1 in 3 gas stations have it here.

	20-05-2004 01:36									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Asher -- if it's not as environmentally friendly as other cars, I probably would not be interested.

	20-05-2004 01:37									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The VW GTIs are actually worse on the environment than most gas vehicles.

Diesel may get you more mileage, but the emissions are much worse.

	20-05-2004 01:38									#65
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Asher -- if it's not as environmentally friendly as other cars, I probably would not be interested.

It's about average. The rating out of 10 is how friendly it is overall.

The Mazda 3 is both high mileage, powerful, full of features you won't find on anything in its class, and environmentally friendly.

	20-05-2004 01:38									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I think I prefer a non-hybrid car

Why? The Prius isn't a bad looking car at all.

	20-05-2004 01:40									#67
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why? The Prius isn't a bad looking car at all.

1) They're dangerous for rescue workers, who can't use things such as the jaws of life in bad accidents on cars with any kind of electric engine
2) The price premium takes about a decade to pay itself off, even with $2/gallon prices
3) They're gutless -- the Prius goes 0-60 in 12 seconds (Mazda 3 is about 7)

	20-05-2004 01:40									#68
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, I am still unsure, I guess. I thought the fact that I would 50 miles per gallon with a hybrid would save me money. I'm going to get opinions from other people and weigh that with the research I have done so far, along with Asher's thoughts.

	20-05-2004 01:44									#69
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by DanS It's both the biggest consumer and producer.

Not according to the stats I saw last (admittedly 2002 figures). Saudi Arabia produced 1,000 barrels a day more, and the US was tied with the Russians for production.

As a side note, the US was consuming just under three times what is was producing.

	20-05-2004 01:45									#70
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Well, I am still unsure, I guess. I thought the fact that I would 50 miles per gallon with a hybrid would save me money. I'm going to get opinions from other people and weigh that with the research I have done so far, along with Asher's thoughts.

The numbers are even iffy then -- look at the Time article I linked to.

A Prius advertises over 50, but it averages about 43 in the real world, which isn't that much better at all...

	20-05-2004 01:45									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

MrFun: Especially since I saw Civic Hybrids priced the same as regular Civics around my neck of the woods. You just have to see what the deals are where you are.

	20-05-2004 01:45									#72
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Asher -- in regards to hybrids, I would likely go for a Honda Civic -- if I decide to go hybrid.

	20-05-2004 01:46									#73
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui MrFun: Especially since I saw Civic Hybrids priced the same as regular Civics around my neck of the woods. You just have to see what the deals are where you are.

Well in my local area, I can get a 2003 Honda Civic hybrid for under $15,000.

	20-05-2004 01:47									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui MrFun: Especially since I saw Civic Hybrids priced the same as regular Civics around my neck of the woods. You just have to see what the deals are where you are.

WTF?
I call BS...

Why would Honda price something that's supposed to be priced $2500 more, the same? Even with the price premium, the profit margins on hybrid cars are TINY for their costs of production. Either they artifically inflated the Civic's price, or you're not remembering correctly...Honda isn't going to sell the Civic Hybrids at a loss.

	20-05-2004 01:47									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Asher -- read my last post along with Imran's claim.

	20-05-2004 01:49									#76
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

According to Honda.com:

Baseline Sedan Civic: $13,500 + tax + fees
Baseline Hybrid Civic: $21,000 + tax + fees

Tell me what I'm doing wrong?

	20-05-2004 01:49									#77
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by monkspider Diesel isn't tough to find, about 1 in 3 gas stations have it here.

1 in 3? I can't remember a service station that didn't sell diesel and petrol.

LPG, now that is still reasonably rare to find.

	20-05-2004 01:51									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Dauphin 1 in 3? I can't remember a service station that didn't sell diesel and petrol. LPG, now that is still reasonably rare to find.

Diesel is WAY more popular in Europe than North America.

	20-05-2004 01:55									#79
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Why would Honda price something that's supposed to be priced $2500 more, the same?

Who said HONDA, INC was pricing it less? You ever been to a dealer, Asher? They'll sell you cars for less than the sticker price if they are running a deal.

My parents got their former car, the Ford Windstar back in the day for a few thou off the sticker price.

	20-05-2004 01:56									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Who said HONDA, INC was pricing it less? You ever been to a dealer, Asher? They'll sell you cars for less than the sticker price if they are running a deal.

Link me to one of your local dealers where you see the hybrid and regular for a similar price...

	20-05-2004 01:57									#81
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher According to Honda.com: Baseline Sedan Civic: $13,500 + tax + fees Baseline Hybrid Civic: $21,000 + tax + fees Tell me what I'm doing wrong?

here ya go, Asher -- info on Honda's hybrid model



2003 Honda Civic

	20-05-2004 01:59									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MrFun here ya go, Asher -- info on Honda's hybrid model 2003 Honda Civic

2003 Civic Sedan: $12,654
2003 Civic Hybrid: $16,756

Mind you, the prices I quoted from Honda.com was for the 2004 models, the 2003 models are obviously reduced...

	20-05-2004 02:01									#83
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Asher??

The price on the linked site I gave listed the price as less than $14,000. But that is only the base price.

	20-05-2004 02:03									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Asher?? The price on the linked site I gave listed the price as less than $14,000. But that is only the base price.

The price on the linked site was for:

quote: 2003 Honda Civic 4 Dr LX Sedan

The base price for this was $12,654.

I clicked the "View 2003 Styles" link, and got the equivalent hybrid:

quote: 2003 Honda Civic 4 Dr Hybird Sedan

The base price for this was $16,756.

Where do you get $14,000 for either car?

	20-05-2004 02:04									#85
	Tired of ads?

I didn't I said it was LESS than $14,000.

	20-05-2004 02:05									#86
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, you also compared it to the high-end sedan.

The DX Sedan is $10,808.

DX Gas: $10,808
LX Gas: $12,654
Hybrid: $16,756

	20-05-2004 02:05									#87
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MrFun I didn't I said it was LESS than $14,000.

Either way, clearly the Hybrid is quite a bit more money than the gas, which was the entire point...

Imran's on drugs.

	20-05-2004 02:06									#88
	Inflate your Upload Space

Remember also that the prices for used cars will be different from rural Illinois, to say, San Diego or New York.

	20-05-2004 02:06									#89
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Asher Either way, clearly the Hybrid is quite a bit more money than the gas, which was the entire point... Imran's on drugs.

Even if I can get a good condition, 2003 hybrid car, you still argue that I am worse off?

	20-05-2004 02:08									#90
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Remember also that the prices for used cars will be different from rural Illinois, to say, San Diego or New York.

The assumption was a new car, since used car pricing varies wildly.

I don't know if you'd be worse off with a used hybrid, but it'd probably be hard to find as well.

I just think the technology isn't fully there yet. They're weak and they're not that much better than good gas cars at mileage. Another factor is hybrid cars are far more complex, which means higher maintenance costs.