23-05-2004 01:03									#31
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The stats for Inf and Tanks have remained unchanged sicne the release of CivIII Vanilla. That's actually the case for most non-UU units.

	23-05-2004 03:28									#32
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I made a mistake, I mixed the Attack and Defence around. I am so dillusional when I'm sick...

	23-05-2004 09:47									#33
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I like having fun with the names. In a current game as Carthage I named my elite swordsman "Hannibal's Cannibals".

	23-05-2004 16:40									#34
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Nice ...

	27-05-2004 14:52									#35
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Since it's often horse units I name my Hero elites Nazgul,
More Nazgul,
Even more Nazgul,
Still more Bl**dy Nazgul and
Who are these Nazgul guys anyway?

Tanks get named after SF units, so you'll have
Bolos
Shevas
Rollagons
Ogres
Hammers Slammers

And one should always look favourably on the elite since it has allowed you to generatae an all powerful army o' doom.

	27-05-2004 21:49									#36
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I tend to load Elite*s into armies.

	28-05-2004 18:16									#37
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quote: Originally posted by dworkin Since it's often horse units I name my Hero elites Nazgul, More Nazgul, Even more Nazgul, Still more Bl**dy Nazgul and Who are these Nazgul guys anyway? ... And one should always look favourably on the elite since it has allowed you to generatae an all powerful army o' doom.

Heh. The first horse-based unit that generates a leader for me is always named "The Nine." I've occasionally used "The Witchking" but usually I don't. After that first one I'll either go with "1st Cavaliers" and so on, or I will go with (name of leader)'s Guard, or maybe "Crushers of Cattaragus" or "Slayers of Sumer" or whatever.

If the Nine should be dispatched, they will be replaced by the next horse-based leader generator. Tanks I can't be arsed to give interesting names - they just get
"1st Armored Cavalry" and so forth.

-Arrian

	28-05-2004 18:17									#38
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The perfect army, IMO, is the 4x elite* army. I've rarely pulled that off, but I've done it. 4x elite* cavalry. 20 hitpoints of 12.6.4. terror. Mmm.

I usually load the elite* unit into the army. But I sometimes generate the leader with an obselete unit that I can immediately upgrade to something more powerful, and in that case I might just load other units so I don't have to wait for my elite* to be upgraded and loaded in.

In the rare cases when I've got a regular unit of the type I wish to put in the army, it will definitely go in (this is typically a regular medieval infantry, upgraded from an old regular warrior). It's very easy to get that unit promoted in the army, since winning 2x in a row with an army is easy. If the regular unit is the one doing the fighting, *presto* you've now got him up to vet. Regular units running around on their own generally suck.

-Arrian

	28-05-2004 21:16									#39
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In the very early game, I have had 4 x AC with 24 hit points. This is at a time when you are fighting spears and swords.

	28-05-2004 22:45									#40
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That might be the Holy Grail of armies, vmxa1. It basically means you got 4 early MGLs (3 for armies, and one to rush the Pentagon, because the Pent is pretty big for a city back then to build straight-up).

Regular 'ole 3x AC armies are unstoppable against spearmen. The juiced up version could probably rip through pikes pretty well.

-Arrian

	28-05-2004 23:29									#41
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Yeah they are a lot of fun and AC's seem to create leaders very nicely.

They never got pikes, but the army is going to be useful for a long time in the open field. As long as you do not send it at large cities, it solid.

	28-05-2004 23:37									#42
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 In the very early game, I have had 4 x AC with 24 hit points. This is at a time when you are fighting spears and swords.

Given the opposition, that's gotta be about the most deadly army you can possibly field.

The worst army I ever saw was probably an AI army consisting of a regular Knight, a regular Longbowman, and a conscript Warrior. Eight HP! This was in PTW, BTW, so a movement of one, too, and no combat bonuses.

	29-05-2004 00:24									#43
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quote: Given the opposition, that's gotta be about the most deadly army you can possibly field.

Close, anyway. If we're ignoring situations where you catch an AI that lacks resources and get a Cav vs. spearmen war.

Since the army bonus isn't maximized until you have the M.A. (req military tradition), the 4x AC army has 5.3.3. stats during "its era" so to speak.

5.3.3. versus 1.2.1 and 3.2.1, yeah, that's overpowering.

But a 4x Cav army with the M.A. is 12.6.4. Put it up against musketmen and has more relative power than the AC army (yeah, the muskets will benifit more from defensive bonuses, like larger AI cities, but that Cav monster has an extra move with which to pound the bejesus out of the enemy).

Whatever. I'm rambling now, because it's Friday afternoon. Short version: Armies rock in Conquests.

-Arrian

	29-05-2004 00:31									#44
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Armies got too powerful in C3C if you ask me. And the AI stopped using them, sigh.

Edit: You're not factoring in that the AC army's got 20% more HP, BTW.

	29-05-2004 00:36									#45
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Good point, that. My original "other option" was going to be a War Elephant army, which of course also has the hp bonus working for it. But I ended up going with Cav, and forgot to factor that in.

So maybe the 24hp 4x elite* AC army does win the title of "most relative power" after all.

-Arrian

	29-05-2004 02:46									#46
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BTW you can get those 24 HP without using elites that have made a leader. I sometimes stick in vets (5hp) units, since they cannot be upgraded anyway. Then they can become elite during a series of battles.

This is harder, but does happen.

I do love those Calv armies though. I just avoid metros or infantry units. Rifles in a city is my limit without a bombarment before hand.

The AI will not attack them in the open even with a huge stack. Very useful at Sid, you can pillage or do hit and run.

I really like to have maybe 5 or 6 calv armies and have all, but one kill as many units as they can and retreat to the unused army. The AI leaves them alone.

	29-05-2004 03:52									#47
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Yes, whar is it with the AI not daring to attack armies? It won't attack an Inf army with anything less than MA, which makes for a pretty much immortal Arty stack.

	29-05-2004 03:55									#48
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The AI attacks based on a calculated risk/gain. Since the likelyhood of killing an army is low for a single unit, a whole stack and arty could nail an army quickly, but the AI does not see it because it calculates on a unit to unit basis

	29-05-2004 04:50									#49
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Note that if you want them to attack, move them into a city. They will come for a recently captured city, no matter how many armies it has in it.

	29-05-2004 15:50									#50
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Well, in the situation I was talking about, you wouldn't want it, since Inf armies aren't that tough on defense objectively. A handful of Tanks does the trick, typically.

	29-05-2004 22:50									#51
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What situation are you talking about? I doubt a few tanks are going to take down an infantry army forted in a metro.

	29-05-2004 23:01									#52
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I'm talking about assigning a single Inf Army to guard an Arty stack on the offense.

	30-05-2004 03:41									#53
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At that point in the game, you should have 4xinfantry, so if they have a bunch of arties in the stack, I do not see 4 tanks or even 5 taking them down.

I have not had that situation, that that I can recall, but I would be surprised if the AI will attack it at all.

Test it out will a quick scenario map. I have seen stack of an excess of 100 units and several other in range, that would not atack a single calv army.

	30-05-2004 04:04									#54
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As said, the AI won't attack a such Army with Tanks. And that was so already in PTW, when 4-5 Tanks should easily take it out on open terrain.

	30-05-2004 04:13									#55
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I am confused, sorry. It won't attack in the open, but you say it should take it? Is that the point?

BTW I tested it will a regular infantry army of 3 and the tanks when around it and would not attack it.

They attacked in the town and lost to a forted regular infantry.

So what I was saying is the army covering the arties is safe, no matter what units are available to attack it in the field.

If the AI would attack it with tanks, the tanks would lose IMO. Stated another way, I would not attack a large stack of arties covered with a 4 unit infantry army with just 4 or 5 tanks.
I mean if that was all I had. I would, because I would have more units available and could stand the loss of the tanks, more than I could stand the arties roaming around.

I hope I was clear.

Of course the AI will not have a roaming stack of arties anyway.

	30-05-2004 07:25									#56
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The AI will attack a 'winged' army in the field, just not one at full strength, I see this all the time. So if you do not use it you will not lose it, however then what would be the point of such an army, unless it was used to rear-guard the artillery or hold some bottleneck patch of ground.

	30-05-2004 08:28									#57
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Many uses, say pillage or barriers or funnels. Winged or damage armies can be attacked, depending on many factors, such as how damage, what type of army and what units are available to attack it.

	31-05-2004 05:11									#58
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Actually my first Calv Army was killed by AI in open field. That was when I use the Army attacking them heavily, and the Army strength reduced to 'red' status. Then AI took the chance to kill the Army in its turn. Quite a shock, but some satisfactory nevertheless --- the AI is still competent to post some threat to me

	31-05-2004 06:26									#59
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The chance that an army will retreat when down to one hitpoint is that based on the presence of the units in it, or on an intrinsic army value?

For instance if there is an elite unit in the army I gather that this unit will be the first to attack, so when you are down to one hitpoint it might only be a veteran attacking.

So if it is the unit attacking that decides the retreat percentage then it would be good to have all units in the army as elites as they have a 66% chance of retreating, as compared to veterans who have only 50% chance of retreating.

Or is that how it works?