21-05-2004 01:35									#31
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael But they're not trying to base it off of anything logical, so I don't really care. That's their faith.

How much more can we get you to qualify this statement of yours?

	21-05-2004 01:36									#32
	Inflate your Upload Space

No qualifications needed. I said it was the logic that bothered me. People of faith aren't using logic.

	21-05-2004 01:37									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov A lot of people are vegetarian for religious regions. How dispicable is that, huh?

I can support no religion that limits my diet!

	21-05-2004 01:38									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

A friend of my roommate is a vegetarian because she was overweight. When she switched to vegetarianism, she lost 30 lbs over a year. Whenever she's gone back to eating meat, she puts back on weight. So she sticks with being vegetarian. Why is that bad logic?

I don't eat meat because it makes me feel bad after eating it, as if there were lead in my veins. I also have a stomach that is easy to irritate, which is why I've given up dairy products. The bottom line is that I enjoy my diet and feel good about what I eat. This is a problem...why?

	21-05-2004 01:42									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Don't kid yourself Boris, if the cows could they would eat YOU!

As for your friend, when she goes back to eating animal products, is she not eating lean meats or fish?

	21-05-2004 01:43									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, this is as biased as I've seen.
Bashing a person with religious beliefs because of their diet.
Big whoop. You eat their share.

	21-05-2004 01:45									#37
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by GePap Don't kid yourself Boris, if the cows could they would eat YOU!

I never said my diet was based on concern for the the welfare of animals. **** 'em.

quote: As for your friend, when she goes back to eating animal products, is she not eating lean meats or fish?

I don't know anyone who eats meat who solely confines themselves to lean meats, but AFAIK she ate meat "normally" in those times. It just wasn't worth it to her, as limiting herself to vegetarianism has kept her weight down in and of itself.

That's not to say there aren't fat vegetarians, but I'd wager that, overall, vegetarians enjoy slimmer waistlines than omnivores.

	21-05-2004 01:45									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov A friend of my roommate is a vegetarian because she was overweight. When she switched to vegetarianism, she lost 30 lbs over a year. Whenever she's gone back to eating meat, she puts back on weight. So she sticks with being vegetarian. Why is that bad logic?

There are probably healthier diets. No diet that focuses on extremes is a good one. It's that whole moderation thing. The middle path and all that.

quote: I don't eat meat because it makes me feel bad after eating it, as if there were lead in my veins. I also have a stomach that is easy to irritate, which is why I've given up dairy products. The bottom line is that I enjoy my diet and feel good about what I eat. This is a problem...why?

Maybe you should get that checked out by a doctor, because that's not really normal.

I also don't have a problem with what you do, I just think that extremes are stupid, and that people who exercise extremes for stupid reasons are acting stupidly.

	21-05-2004 01:46									#39
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Jamski You eat the lichen. Blegh the lichen was rotten! You see the Small Cat The White Dragon bites! The Rat bites! You miss the Fire Ant! The Pony kicks! You die. Do you want your possessions identified y/n?

As for the thread question: lacto-ovo-vegetarian.
And the reason I'm a vegetarian is simply because I don't like the idea of killing animals unless I feel it's really necessary

	21-05-2004 01:47									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Well, this is as biased as I've seen. Bashing a person with religious beliefs because of their diet. Big whoop. You eat their share.

Uh, I wasn't doing that, if that's focused on me.

	21-05-2004 01:48									#41
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Vegetarianism isn't an extreme! It's a perfectly healthy diet! You can live a very long, healthy life being a vegetarian. In fact, studies indicate that being vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore.

Associating vegetarianism with extremism is as stupid as associating, say, Chinese food with extremism.

	21-05-2004 01:48									#42
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov A friend of my roommate is a vegetarian because she was overweight. When she switched to vegetarianism, she lost 30 lbs over a year.

I have gained 20 kilos the last few years. All those Veggie pizzas...

	21-05-2004 01:49									#43
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That's not to say there aren't fat vegetarians, but I'd wager that, overall, vegetarians enjoy slimmer waistlines than omnivores.

So when the lean times come, all the Veges drop dead while we happy Omnivores live on! Specialization = death.

	21-05-2004 01:50									#44
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Vegetarianism isn't an extreme! It's a perfectly healthy diet! You can live a very long, healthy life being a vegetarian. In fact, studies indicate that being vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore.

Please quote one.

	21-05-2004 01:52									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Vegetarianism isn't an extreme! It's a perfectly healthy diet! You can live a very long, healthy life being a vegetarian. In fact, studies indicate that being vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. Associating vegetarianism with extremism is as stupid as associating, say, Chinese food with extremism.

What type of vegetarianism? Not all types are healthy. And, this may seem as if I'm playing semantics, but it's not the vegetarian lifestyle that is more healthy, it is the withdrawl from an omnivorous lifestyle that is. Extremes of meat consumption, which are incredibly common in the United States, are also unhealthy.

	21-05-2004 01:53									#46
	Got spare money?

Much as I dislike being associated with MrFun, I have to admit I'm an unabashed omnivore. I like the taste of plenty of meat dishes, and maintaining my weight on a vegetarian diet would be a royal pain. And I've got that lack of empathy for animals you get from living next to a farm as a kid - I've eaten animals I've seen growing up, and never felt the slightest bad about it.

	21-05-2004 01:58									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by GePap Please quote one.

I can cite them:

1. Key TJA, Thorogood M, Appleby PN, et al. Dietary habits and mortality in 11,000 vegetarians and health conscious people: results of a 17 year follow up. BMJ 1996;313:775–79.
2. Snowdon DA, Phillips RL. Does a vegetarian diet reduce the occurrence of diabetes? Am J Public Health 1985;75:507-12.
3. Key T. Prevalence of obesity is low in people who do not eat meat. BMJ 1996;313:816.
4. Pixley F, Wilson D, McPherson K, et al. Effect of vegetarianism on development of gall stones in women. BMJ 1985;291:11-12.
5. Robertson WG, Peacock M, Marshall DH. Prevalence of urinary stone disease in vegetarians. Eur Urol 1982;8:334-339.

	21-05-2004 01:59									#48
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael it's not the vegetarian lifestyle that is more healthy, it is the withdrawl from an omnivorous lifestyle that is.

Surely you can back that up with some data?

	21-05-2004 01:59									#49
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Proud Omnivore- as long as it tastes good and has a nice consistency, the kindom or phylum is irrelevant!

	21-05-2004 02:00									#50
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I am vegetarian for ethical reasons.

I do not think that we should kill, torture, and consume animals. I don't see anything illogical about that. I do on the other side of the spectrum, however, with people who feel that it is alright to do these things... to anything that isn't human. Either through some sort of belief that humans are not animals and are some sort of destined chosen ones or gods themselves, or whatever, or for sheer selfish reasons.

If you are a meat eater and also some sort of millitant fascist or whatever, well, I guess you can claim consistency.

	21-05-2004 02:02									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Surely you can back that up with some data?

I'm sure your studies back up what I say. I'm not a nutrionist and this isn't really my area of expertise. What I know about what I just said is more based on things I've read and heard from other experts, but I haven't kept records of this.

But I don't know that those studies agree with my thinking, so I will ask this question, what types of vegetarianism were being studied?

	21-05-2004 02:05									#52
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I am vegetarian for ethical reasons. I do not think that we should kill, torture, and consume animals.

Why do you think we should not kill, torture, or consume animals?

I'll be back after some dishes are done.

	21-05-2004 02:07									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I do not think that we should kill, torture, and consume animals.

What exactly is your definition of an animal there? I doubt it's the classically accepted one.

	21-05-2004 02:07									#54
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I do not think that we should kill, torture, and consume animals. I don't see anything illogical about that. I do on the other side of the spectrum, however, with people who feel that it is alright to do these things... to anything that isn't human. Either through some sort of belief that humans are not animals and are some sort of destined chosen ones or gods themselves, or whatever, or for sheer selfish reasons.

Given that species borders have more grounding in biological reality than to kingdom ones, why is making an exclusion for humans more illogical than making on for animals?

(I'm assuming you have no moral issues with eating plants, fungus or bacteria.)

	21-05-2004 02:08									#55
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, the cites come from here:

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/veg_definition.htm

What's a Vegetarian?

quote: “Vegetarian” is a blanket term for a variety of diets that exclude meat, poultry, and fish. The most healthful, the pure vegetarian (or "vegan") diet, only includes foods of plant origin, such as nuts, seeds, vegetables, fruits, grains, and legumes. A "lacto-vegetarian" includes these plant foods and also dairy products. A "lacto-ovo-vegetarian" consumes both dairy and eggs. Is Veg Healthier? There is abundant evidence that vegetarian diets are more healthful than the average American diet, especially for preventing, treating or reversing heart disease and reducing the risk of cancer.1 Research has shown a low-fat vegetarian diet is the single most effective way to stop progression of coronary artery disease or prevent it altogether. Several other health conditions, such as diabetes,2 obesity,3 gallstones,4 and kidney stones,5 are much less common in vegetarians. The health benefits of a vegetarian diet may be linked to the fact that vegetarians tend to eat less animal fat, protein and cholesterol and more fiber and antioxidants.6 Simply put, the fewer animal foods and the more varied, whole plantfoods consumed, the healthier the individual will be compared to the general population.

Now I'm sure that people will complain that the site is biased, but it is cited work.

Can you produce any evidence that a diet including meat is necessarily going to be better than one without meat?

Would the fact that a low-fat vegetarian diet is healthier than a low-fat diet including meat convince you of the "logic" of being vegetarian in one regard? Or are you going to make a further qualification that only unhealthy vegetarian diets need be deemed illogical?

	21-05-2004 02:08									#56
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Why do you think we should not kill, torture, or consume animals?

For the same reason I don't think we should kill, torture, or consume humans. It's unethical.

I thought I already covered that...

	21-05-2004 02:11									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I eat a couple of vegetables in a year.

	21-05-2004 02:15									#58
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Went to Fogo de Chao recently, what an awesome restaurant.

	21-05-2004 02:16									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Since when are low-fat diets healthy?

	21-05-2004 02:21									#60
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Anyway I'm glad there are people that don't eat meat, keeps the price of meat artificially low. Quit demeaning them,trying to convince them of the error of their ways,etc.