08-07-2004 05:02									#31
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Dunnagan: Uni/lith is not a waste bud It's much more robust than you might think

	08-07-2004 05:04									#32
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Since you like lithovore and you don't mind dictatorship,

Play:

Lith, subterranean, +artifacts + Large HW

	08-07-2004 05:58									#33
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I agree that they are the smart move, until Disrupters and you can even wait a bit to refit for the disrupters.

I am not concerned about the speed of building ships, once I crack Orion. It is a sweetner, but not a big deal. The same as cost, nice, but not huge.

Two other points for the masses and the record.

1) the space of 5 requires the 6000RP in that field, so disrupters have also shrunk a bit to 16. This is often a tech that will not be done for a long time, if at all.

2) beam damage against planets is half right off the top. When you add in any class X shields and the armor and that reduces, if appropriate, further reducing the damage. This make phasor a lot less effective vs planets.

	08-07-2004 07:00									#34
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Again I would like to remind you that my whole argument for Phasers was conditional upon also having the Shield Piercing advantage, thus making shields less effective during planetary bombardment.

	08-07-2004 07:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 The point is that once I get disrupters, I will soon upgrade to them and drop the phasors as they are not needed.

!

quote: Maybe I will find a creative game and give the tech to the AI to see if they can get it build and test this out.

oh yeah, with a bunch of disrupted battleships it'll only be another foothold in their defense, after turn one of combat it'll be gone along with the FG, with a cybertronic one hv rupter does like 180 damage from pretty far

	08-07-2004 07:08									#36
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Does that work against planets?

	08-07-2004 07:18									#37
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quote: Originally posted by M Bison Again I would like to remind you that my whole argument for Phasers was conditional upon also having the Shield Piercing advantage, thus making shields less effective during planetary bombardment.

That is swell, but as I said it is not worth much vs planets and I don't care about vs ships.

I am going to kill their ships regrdless. This is why I said I drop the phasors, because they are not effect vs planets in all cases.

It is a pain but I am getting the test set up. I found a game I had finished and used the save before I bust the Anties. I got final war so I will have to chop down a lot of systems to get to a test.

	08-07-2004 09:58									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha Does that work against planets?

No.

	08-07-2004 10:04									#39
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Ok here is a save I just ran for this proposition.

Look at the fleet at Gladius of 7 battleship each with 22 phasors using Hv Co SP AF.

Specials scanner, Heavy Armor, Stabilizer, HeF and reflection field.

I wanted to give them enough life to prove phasor cannot harm barrier shields.

One titan with the same stuff and 37 phasors.

If you want to use Corion to change the special and see if any help post the results please.


Anyway as I remembered, they did nothing to the planet. I send in another fleet using only disrupters and hit "Z" and then bombed the planet.

MOre ships would have only meant more time waiting to lose the battle.

Case closed, on to the next episode.

Attachment: save8.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	08-07-2004 20:06									#40
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does a mauler always hit a displaced ship? If so, I remember someone saying that maulers were worthless, so this might be one use for them, however since they are expensive, and you can just use brut force to kill displaced ships, then I wonder how useful it really is.

As for phasors vs disruptors, since I haven't played a game on impossible (vxma helped me by suggesting uni-tol) in which I haven't 'won' (just have to mop up) by the time I have plasma cannons, I can't say whats good. Mass drivers do well until class III shields, then they start to lose effectiveness. I also use lots of lasers until class III shields. Then I move to neutrons, and the game is about over.

	08-07-2004 20:37									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Croesus does a mauler always hit a displaced ship? If so, I remember someone saying that maulers were worthless, so this might be one use for them, however since they are expensive, and you can just use brut force to kill displaced ships, then I wonder how useful it really is. As for phasors vs disruptors, since I haven't played a game on impossible (vxma helped me by suggesting uni-tol) in which I haven't 'won' (just have to mop up) by the time I have plasma cannons, I can't say whats good. Mass drivers do well until class III shields, then they start to lose effectiveness. I also use lots of lasers until class III shields. Then I move to neutrons, and the game is about over.

i always go missiles only in the early -mid game, up to c3 shields

	08-07-2004 21:26									#42
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To tell you the truth I don't even remember using maulers for anything.

I know lots of people use lasers with all the mods for a long time, in the main I tend to go with missiles until either mass drivers or later beams.

	08-07-2004 21:46									#43
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 To tell you the truth I don't even remember using maulers for anything. I know lots of people use lasers with all the mods for a long time, in the main I tend to go with missiles until either mass drivers or later beams.

yeah. from a tactical standpoint, the missiles are the win. i hate making the rush ships though, it takes about fifty clicks to add the goodies to them when you get merc, another boring clickfest

	08-07-2004 22:18									#44
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Phasors will not scratch a barrier shield, even if hv, co, af, sp.

maulers (or plasma cannons) can be useful for knocking down a ships shields to setup a SC that has ATU and SA.

if someone has moleculartronic computer targeting (125% accuracy), and if applicible, CO, is there a need for the rangemaster unit?

how I dealt dealth with enemy Ai Displaced ships on Impossible, either equip the fleet with phase cloak and time warpers OR heavy armor, reinforced hull, damper, displacement, ATU, SA, and pick between HeF, inertial null, or hyper capacitor
-with respect to phase cloaking the fleet, the AI stops firing at the planet after is eliminates the defenses. but expect the star base to be destroyed.

When you're down to one AI enemy who has 4 colonies to your 20+, anyone ever give the AI technology gifts just to close the gap and see how much of a challenge the AI makes?

	08-07-2004 22:23									#45
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quote: Originally posted by PsilonDependant When you're down to one AI enemy who has 4 colonies to your 20+, anyone ever give the AI technology gifts just to close the gap and see how much of a challenge the AI makes?

I never play non repulsive, and the best way to test yourself is to have alot of colonies and vote for the other guy, then object the ruling and it'll be every free colony against you, that's a bit of a challenge if the other side is Psilon