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GoPostal
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I thought it was well acted, set up sequels (Aeneid, Odyssey), but there was one inaccuracy: Achilles ship had a black sail with a Lambda on it. The Lamba was the symbol of Lakedaimonians, or Spartans, as you can see on Leonidas' avatar. With his father being Pelias, and his mother Thetis ( a sea-nymph), he should have had the ram of Iolchis, his father's kingdom. I thought mixing art was a good idea, but when was there Egyptian art? I thought the idea of Persian for Troy, and Hellenistic (should have been archaic, considering the time period) for the Achaeans, made a good contrast between the two.
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Stefan Härtel
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Eddie's best friend
Jul 1999
time: 06:17
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quote:
but when was there Egyptian art? |
Some statues and carvings had obvious Egyptian influences.
In general, Troyan art was mostly pre-Classical Greek (many statues) and Persian- some carvings were exact copies of carvings from Persepolis.
I didn't mind that though, because I regarded this film as fantasy, not historical. And it did one hell of a job- the fight between Achilles and Hector was among the best swordfights I've seen on film!
I personally liked Pitt better than Bloom in this film, because I think he had a superior acting performance.
Which reminds me...
I saw the film with a mate of mine, and we had a lot of fun teasing a group of 14-year old girls that sat beside us. At one point, before the film started, I exclaimed "I heard Brad Pitt was gay," to which one of the girls shouted to me: "I don't care, I've got a crush on Orlando Bloom, not on Brad Pitt!"
We couldn't hold ourselves with laughter!
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Gagliaudo
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of Medioevo
Jan 2003
time: 06:17
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@Leonidas
IIRC, there is at lest one scenario called Trojan War (very old, I think).
Good idea Thermopylai's scenario, but quite difficul for civ2, however I was working (  :q on a Persian Wars scenario, too (one of the thousands of mine... :lol
There will be another movie about Alex the Great (not ony the one you've mentioned), and... I read George Clooney will be LEONIDAS (the real, not you!!!   ) in a future movie called "Gates of Fire" (Thermpylai...what else???). I thinks it is inspired by an omonimous book, the author... I'll post it later(when remember).
@GoPostal:
Right, 'lambda' is wrong... but careful!!!
Achilles' father was Peleos, (Pelias was the Jason 's uncle-enemy ), and his city wasn't Iolchos but another one, always in Thessalia: PHTIA. Just for precision
A 'greek pi' maybe could have been a nice graphic solution, didn't it?
@you all:
hey guys, don't tell me any more!!! 
I'll see the movie tomorrow (perhaps), cause in Italy cinemas - only tomorrow - will cost 3€... 
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
The film was nice, though I didn't like the music, and Orlando Bloom could've made more than 2 1/2 facial expressions.
Apart from that, the city looked great, but why did they mix Greek, Egyptian and Persian art? Just a thought... |
The music was brooding in tone. It sounded a lot like that from Gladiator.
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by GoPostal
I thought it was well acted, set up sequels (Aeneid, Odyssey |
I heard rumours that the other two you mention may also be done.
That would be kinda cool, considering the time period. I'm glad that Hollywood is getting back into the epics.
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GoPostal
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I would really like to see the Aeneid, because I have to cover it for GCSE, might understand it.
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Gagliaudo
@Leonidas
IIRC, there is at lest one scenario called Trojan War (very old, I think).
Good idea Thermopylai's scenario, but quite difficul for civ2, however I was working ( :q on a Persian Wars scenario, too (one of the thousands of mine... :lol
There will be another movie about Alex the Great (not ony the one you've mentioned), and... I read George Clooney will be LEONIDAS (the real, not you!!! ) in a future movie called "Gates of Fire" (Thermpylai...what else???). I thinks it is inspired by an omonimous book, the author... I'll post it later(when remember). |
With all the advances and talent, it would be interesting to see a new Trojan War scenario
Thermoplyae Scenario:
needed:
1) very mountainous map
2) two protagonists: Spartans (plus allies) and Persians
3) small pass in mountains
4) lots of events whereby destroyed Persians are spawned to keep attacking the Spartans in the Pass
5) Event that opens the "alternate" route through the mountains.
6) player plays the Spartans, and achieves victory by holding the Persians longer than historically done. . .
etc, etc. . .
Just a thought. I think we owe the ancient Greeks a great deal. Xerxes' plan was to invade all of Greece and then Europe. The Greeks foiled those ambitious plans.
But it was the Spartan bravery that led the way. Leonidas and his Three Hundred gained immortality for bravery that will ring throughout eternity. . .
It was after stopping the Persian invasion that Greece entered its Golden Age and gave us many of the foundations to our philosophy, art, government, etc
I think there may be three movies being done of the Spartan last stand: "The 300 Spartans", "Gates of Fire", and I can't recall the last one. . .
It would be a great tribute to their sacrifice, and to coincide with the Olympics, to have a scenario based on this event
Cheers!
Last edited by Leonidas on 23-05-2004 at 18:45
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Leonidas
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I gave John Ellis' units (for his scenario "Hellas") a re-touch by adding new units done by others, and/or by improving upon some existing units.
I don't take any credit for any of these units:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=5932_UNITS.gif
Last edited by Leonidas on 24-05-2004 at 02:34
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by yaroslav
I always saw this battle as one of the highest epic battles of history. I fully admire Greece (both ancient and modern), so any scen about Greece is welcomed 
But I also thinks that Persia should get more credit because she is usually underrated. They were also a civilized culture, that formed the first multicultural empire of all |
That's very true: The Persians were a highly civilized people.
However, there was one major difference: The Persian Empire was ruled by Royal Degree: a Tyranny if you will.
While ancient Greece valued individualism and freedom above all else. . .
It would be interesting to see how history might have been different had the Persians won and defeated Greece.
When Leonidas was preparing to make his stand, a Persian envoy arrived. The envoy explained to Leonidas the futility of trying to resist the advance of the huge Persian army.
"Our archers are so numerous," said the envoy, "that the flight of their arrows darkens the sun."
"So much the better," replied Leonidas, "for we shall fight them in the shade."
Perturbed, the envoy declared: "The Great King demands that you leave this place and surrender your swords."
With a defiant smile, Leonidas replied, "Come and take them."
Last edited by Leonidas on 24-05-2004 at 03:29
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Gagliaudo
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of Medioevo
Jan 2003
time: 06:17
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@Leonidas:
Agrre with your ideas... btw, for my very futuristic Greece scenario, I was thinking to put air (move0,def1) mountain 'unit' as the hidden pass showed by the damned Ephialthes to Persians; at a certain moment, it will appear the Ephialtes (air) unit, that will open (destroy) the way to Persians... Just an idea, neither original (inspired by J Ellis & S Hartel scenarios ).
Nice pic, I saw that film 4-5 times , I liked it very much, it was done very well (and quite historically serious).
Steven Pressfield is the author of "Gates of fire" (and another about Peloponnesian war, traduced in Italian "Aegeos' winds" (I'll search for eventually different original title )
BTW, italian archeologist, professor and succesfully writer Valerio Massimo MANFREDI wrote wonderful books about ancient Greece: "Talos' shield" (adventures during Persian wars, very historical :b, "Le paludi di Hesperia" (the Diomedes 'nostos'= return). If you see them, catch'em !!!
You' love them!!! (hey, manfredi won't pay me for this )
@Yaroslav:
yes, today is cheap, but always 5-7 €... Cinema is beginning more and more luxe...
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Stefan Härtel
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Eddie's best friend
Jul 1999
time: 06:17
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However, there was one major difference: The Persian Empire was ruled by Royal Degree: a Tyranny if you will. |
That depends on how you look at it. The people enjoyed an incredible amount of freedom and equality, almost equal to that of modern-day western societies. Equality of sex, religion, race... it was all there. Nobody was discriminated for where he came from, what he believed etc. Sciences and arts flourished. In fact, the only thing that differed the empire from a democracy was the fact that the people did not elect their leaders (unless they lived in a territory where this was part of the tradition, in which case it was allowed).
That's why I believe Greece would have developed similarily to how it did in reality, with the exception that all national thinking might have been abolished. No Pelopponesian wars, no Macedonian hegemony. It could have been peaceful.
Yes, I guess everybody here knows I've got my own little thoughts about Persia
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Palaiologos
The movie was 100% BS.
Can't believe people actually liked it. Music, Brad pit, and the dude that played Ector were terrible.
Moreover it had this so american feeling-Agamemnon died in the end simply because he was the villain. And obviously they thought that orlando bloom's legolash role could be taken advantage of, hence the archery crap in the end. And why the hell does Pares and Helen run off to live their love? Pares was slain and helen taken back in reality. |
Well, movies can be subjective.
However, the movie Troy is not about the "Illiad". It's based on what is known about the Trojan War, and Homer's book is used for some of the details.
Homer wrote the "Illiad" 500 years after the Trojan War. He also includes the Gods getting involved in the war. Obviously, Homer's book is HIS interpretation of the Trojan War, and he throws in a good deal of fantasy as well. So, who is to say his facts are correct?
The epic poems attributed to Homer (who was blind) were part of an oral tradition, in which stories were recited and listened to, as opposed to written down and read. Like other bards, Homer used mythical tales handed down over generations and told them anew, re-shaping them for a contemporary audience, adding new details and leaving others out.
We know very little about Homer, and there have even been arguments about whether a single poet even created the poems.
So, Homer's book is a mixture of quasi-history and fantasy and should be read mainly as good literature.
Since so few movies have been made about ancient history, I am all for supporting more of this type of movie. Especially, when one considers some of the trash that is in the theatres.
Frankly, I think Troy is good story telling and a good action movie.
I agree about the 300 Spartans, although I would like to see a re-make of the movie.
Cheers!
Last edited by Leonidas on 25-05-2004 at 02:15
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Gagliaudo
@Leonidas:
Agrre with your ideas... btw, for my very futuristic Greece scenario, I was thinking to put air (move0,def1) mountain 'unit' as the hidden pass showed by the damned Ephialthes to Persians; at a certain moment, it will appear the Ephialtes (air) unit, that will open (destroy) the way to Persians... Just an idea, neither original (inspired by J Ellis & S Hartel scenarios ).
Nice pic, I saw that film 4-5 times , I liked it very much, it was done very well (and quite historically serious).
Steven Pressfield is the author of "Gates of fire" (and another about Peloponnesian war, traduced in Italian "Aegeos' winds" (I'll search for eventually different original title )
BTW, italian archeologist, professor and succesfully writer Valerio Massimo MANFREDI wrote wonderful books about ancient Greece: "Talos' shield" (adventures during Persian wars, very historical :b, "Le paludi di Hesperia" (the Diomedes 'nostos'= return). If you see them, catch'em !!!
You' love them!!! (hey, manfredi won't pay me for this )
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It sounds like you have some interesting ideas
I just found the book "Gates of Fire" and will start reading it soon.
Last edited by Leonidas on 24-05-2004 at 20:38
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
quote:
However, there was one major difference: The Persian Empire was ruled by Royal Degree: a Tyranny if you will. |
That depends on how you look at it. The people enjoyed an incredible amount of freedom and equality, almost equal to that of modern-day western societies. Equality of sex, religion, race... it was all there. Nobody was discriminated for where he came from, what he believed etc. Sciences and arts flourished. In fact, the only thing that differed the empire from a democracy was the fact that the people did not elect their leaders (unless they lived in a territory where this was part of the tradition, in which case it was allowed).
That's why I believe Greece would have developed similarily to how it did in reality, with the exception that all national thinking might have been abolished. No Pelopponesian wars, no Macedonian hegemony. It could have been peaceful.
Yes, I guess everybody here knows I've got my own little thoughts about Persia |
I agree about Persia. Most rulers, especially Cyrus were quite benevolent.
However, what is important is the way ancient Greeks thought about Persia and Persian rule. They were very independent, almost to a fault. When they weren't fighting Persians, they were whupping each other's butts. The Peloponesean War, in particular, is a very sad event. . .
Interesting on what might have happened in Greece.
It almost seems as if certain empires/countries expand, flower, give the world great works, then slowly fade into history. . .
Toynbee and others have examined this issue.
The philosophy of history can be an interesting topic. . .
Cheers!
Last edited by Leonidas on 24-05-2004 at 20:49
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