26-05-2004 01:30									#1
	Allowable Practices Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have looked at some of the previous entries in this thread and there are some questions I have about allowable practices. Already there has been a discussion about rehoming vans. Here are some others that come to mind...

1) Are there any prohibitions on using the HutFinder Utility??
2) What about 'blackclicking'??
3) What about using the Find City ploy for unknown WOW cities??

Anything else you might have discussed before?? Thanks.

Monk

	26-05-2004 07:41									#2
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AFAIK all we have disallowed are Ironclads and Diplomats. We currently have a rules poll in progress to decide on rehoming Caravans. That's it.

I'd have no idea about any of these other things (except Find City) In SMAC I could do the black-clicking. In Civ2, Iwould be literally in the dark.

	26-05-2004 11:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I have looked at some of the previous entries in this thread and there are some questions I have about allowable practices. Already there has been a discussion about rehoming vans. Here are some others that come to mind... 1) Are there any prohibitions on using the HutFinder Utility?? 2) What about 'blackclicking'?? 3) What about using the Find City ploy for unknown WOW cities?? Anything else you might have discussed before?? Thanks. Monk

Although I personally dislike all of these, they have not been disallowed and have certainly been used in the past.

AFAIK, the only "exploit" we don't allow is van rehoming. I believe that airbases, switch to home city, automated settlers are all allowed.

RJM at Sleeper's

	26-05-2004 23:50									#4
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Okay; thanks.

Monk

	27-05-2004 11:14									#5
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You're welcome.

Plus the stacking trick which probably isn't an exploit, but feels like one to me. It too is available if our leader pro tem wishes to use it.

RJM at Sleeper's

	27-05-2004 17:26									#6
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Query: stacking trick?

* MrWhereItsAt is interested - this is exactly why he got into DGs.

	28-05-2004 11:06									#7
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Leaving a bomber over a stack of other units thus making them difficult to attack.

As I say, probably not an exploit, but I find it quite amusing to think about a crack panzer division unable to attack a party of sappers because somewhere in the sky is a Wellington bomber.

RJM at Sleeper's

PS are you aware of the city mining trick?

Last edited by rjmatsleepers on 28-05-2004 at 11:27

	28-05-2004 11:42									#8
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Yes, the city mining trick is very nice, if you have the time and resources. It works very nicely when building ON Gold, or Grapes, or Iron, or a rivered hill.

Start the mine and before it completes, found the city keeping the first settler working on the mine. This way the city will eventually get the extra shields from a mine; whereas, if the mine is compled already, founding will remove its effect.

Monk

	29-05-2004 22:57									#9
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I wouldn't use anything that required outside software (like HutFinder) or out-of-game machine manipulation to make work. I don't see any problem with black-clicking, though I seldom do it. Things like city-mining are just clever use of game features and seem OK.

	30-05-2004 10:44									#10
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I wouldn't use anything that required outside software (like HutFinder) or out-of-game machine manipulation to make work. I don't see any problem with black-clicking, though I seldom do it. Things like city-mining are just clever use of game features and seem OK.

You don't even keep a list of Oedo dates handy? (Or perhaps you have them all memorised.)

RJM at Sleeper's

	31-05-2004 01:17									#11
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I keep a list of the Oedo years posted on the wall. But that's just like having my list of good spaceship ratios posted as well. It's just stuff you can learn through the game.

I'd have a list of unique unit traits posted too, like Galleons (or whatever) not causing unhappiness problems out of port, but I've never gotten around to compiling that list.

If anyone has such a list, I'd love to have it.

	31-05-2004 11:29									#12
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I'd have a list of unique unit traits posted too, like Galleons (or whatever) not causing unhappiness problems out of port, but I've never gotten around to compiling that list.

My list would be called things I kick myself for forgetting (but I do forget).

1. Don't switch to democracy until that caravel is back in port
2. You can't build roads on rivers 'til you've learned bridge-building.
3. If you discover monarchy 3 turns before the next Oedo year, don't wait 4 turns before revolting.

RJM at Sleeper's

	05-06-2004 02:50									#13
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I wouldn't use anything that required outside software (like HutFinder) or out-of-game machine manipulation to make work. I don't see any problem with black-clicking, though I seldom do it. Things like city-mining are just clever use of game features and seem OK.

I keep an on-going document where I save particularly interesting facts, lists, and research; things like 'The Next Available Research', and how to sort out my Key Civ. But, I doubt that you would agree to use it because it is "an outside software", Microsoft Word.

Monk

	05-06-2004 05:27									#14
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I think there is a difference between application programs designed to interact with the game software and documents that individuals create as simple records.

I would like to see your "on-going document where I save particularly interesting facts, lists, and research", if that would be OK with you. I've depended on memory for too many things, and I regret to say my memory is not what it never really was to begin with. LOL!

It would only be for the good of our civ while I play our sessions. I would never ask for it for mere personal reasons, of course.

	05-06-2004 09:06									#15
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Happy to oblige. Please note, these are mostly cut and paste jobs without attribution. I hope nobody will be offended. This is in Word with an .rtf extension.

Monk

Attachment: civ key ideas.rtf
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	05-06-2004 10:05									#16
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Sorry, I thought you said it was "Word". My computer does recocognize the file extention. But thanks for trying anyway.

	05-06-2004 10:32									#17
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Sorry, I thought you said it was "Word". My computer does recocognize the file extention. But thanks for trying anyway.

Technically, it is WordPad. Were you unable to view it??

Monk

	05-06-2004 11:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Sorry, I thought you said it was "Word". My computer does recocognize the file extention. But thanks for trying anyway.

It opened fine with IE. Word should recognise an rtf (rich text file) extension, but you may have to change from the default where it looks for a .doc extension.

I recognised a few of the components (which I keep in separate documents rather than gathered together in one place). I haven't got the hang of tech gifting. I suspect I mean I tend to forget it and I lack the courage to try it. A bit like leaving cities un-guarded whch I still find difficult.

RJM at Sleeper's

	06-06-2004 22:02									#19
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Well, tried again and it opened in Word just fine! Thanks for the file; I will be looking it over later. A quick scan shows some stuff I don't know much about, so it will definitely be helpful.

I suspect the problem was the .php extension and the way I first tried to open the file.

	06-06-2004 22:11									#20
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Well, tried again and it opened in Word just fine! Thanks for the file; I will be looking it over later. A quick scan shows some stuff I don't know much about, so it will definitely be helpful. I suspect the problem was the .php extension and the way I first tried to open the file.

Great!! I hope you find it helpful. Some of it may be bare bones, and therefore, not completely clear. If so, I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Agree. Those .php add-ons drive me nuts. They disappeared when I subscribed to A-Plus, however, and, I don't miss them. Not even a little.

Monk

	06-06-2004 22:35									#21
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.php is not my favorite thing either. It seems to give me problems.

Does anyone have a list of odd unit characteristics, like ships that don't cause unhappiness out of port or units that don't use up shields? I know I learn about those kinds of things from time to time, but I always forget by the next game.

	06-06-2004 23:17									#22
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I don't have a list, but to answer your two examples...

The ships that don't cause unhappiness out of port are the Galleon (available with Magnetism) and the Transport (available with Industrialization).

Units which don't require shield support are Diplomats (which arn't available in this game), Spies, Caravans and Freight. I believe everything else requires support with the exception of Fanatics under a Fundamentalist Government (but I am not sure this is an all-inclusive list and stand to be corrected).

	07-06-2004 00:43									#23
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One of the characteristics of those units that were mentioned by Sparrowhawk is that they have attack value = zero. But, that is not universal as settlers, explorers, and engineers, from that class, do have shield support.

Two units afield in Republic and one in Democracy cause happiness problems. A fortress within three clicks of a city square (ours) is treated like a city. Representative gov'ts are skewed against roaming war making units, it would seem.

Monk

	07-06-2004 01:33									#24
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Sparrowhawk - That is exactly what I was looking for. If anyone else has other examples of execeptions to the general rules of units (or anything else) I would be glad to hear of it..

	07-06-2004 01:36									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk A fortress within three clicks of a city square (ours) is treated like a city.

What does that mean? I understand the words but not the consequences. I understand clicks but not the "treated like".

	07-06-2004 02:45									#26
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Units create unhappiness when out of cities in Republic or Democracy. The exception that Bloody Monk refers to is that if these units are located in a fortress within three squares of one of our cities the fortress is "treated like a city" meaning the units inside said fortress do not cause unhappiness.

	07-06-2004 06:05									#27
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Sparrowhawk said in part...

quote: meaning (that) the units inside said fortress do not cause unhappiness.

This exception allows you to have "defense in depth" on strategic points around your cities. Because the AI seldom misses taking its shots at a fortress, it avoids the problem that can come if you let the AI attack the city square, namely, the loss of population points if one of the defenders, in the city, loses.

It is a good idea, badly implemented by the AI; and explains why there are so many forts around AI cities.

Monk

	07-06-2004 23:33									#28
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Oh, got it. I knew about units out of the city in Rep Govts, but I didn't connect that to Fortresses.. Thank you for the clarification.

And I was thinking there was some attacking land or sea unit that didn't cause unhappiness out of the city. I guess not. Well, that simplifies things, 0 attack is no unhappiness.

	09-06-2004 17:21									#29
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* MrWhereItsAt is carefully taking notes, but sees with satisfaction he at least knew one or two of these things

Hey! That .rtf is terrific! Exactly the sort of thing I was doing for a while with Civ3 from the Strategy forum (you would not BELIEVE the equations in parts of that - for corruption and city flipping chances, for example).

Did you do that a while ago, BM?

	09-06-2004 19:39									#30
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"Did you do that a while ago, BM?"

Started some years ago. It keeps growing as I find things, usually in the older threads. I find it very helpful to have the salient points handy in this form as opposed to keeping track of many bookmarks. Glad you find it useful.

Monk