27-05-2004 23:43									#61
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quote: Amen, Friends is utter gobshite.

worst sitcom ever!

	27-05-2004 23:43									#62
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quote: Thank you GL...Imran, you've just demonstrated your ignorance...it is Red Dwarf

Another one who has never made a typo before. I'll remember this when you make a misspelling one day .

	27-05-2004 23:43									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Argue dammit! Analyse and debate. Don't just claim something is shite and leave it at that.

Argument:

British television is shite.

Analysis:

This explains many things about them. And about Americans.

	27-05-2004 23:44									#64
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There is nothing else to add, it is just whiny bollocks and it isn't remotely funny. It makes my skin crawl. No analysis, no debate. It's opinion. And my opinion is always right

	27-05-2004 23:44									#65
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"Well bloody bugger me, was that a spot of British arrogance there"

	27-05-2004 23:46									#66
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Nevermind, I'll retreat back to my obscure comedy forums again.... (Evil Knevil disappears back into the ooze).

	27-05-2004 23:46									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil (Evil Knevil disappears back into the ooze).

Ewwwww...

	27-05-2004 23:50									#68
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quote: Argue dammit! Analyse and debate.

k, Seinfeld is the greatest comedy of all time. It was tagged as a 'show about nothing' and that is what gave it, its charm. It harped on the neurosis's of life and on those four super-shallow characters in the middle. Jerry would break up with women for the most trivial reasons (such as having 'man hands', etc). George was almost married because of a bet with Jerry. Elaine would be on and off with Puddy for the silliest reasons. And Kramer, well... he was just Kramer . The utterly silly, neurotic dialogic and utterly ludicrous priorities they placed on things make the show a work of comedic art.

Add that to the amazing casting. The big 4 were perfect, and then you had Newman, Puddy, J. Peterman, Sue Ellen Mishke, Steinbrenner, Babu Bhatt, The Soup Nazi, Kenny Banya etc, etc. The show reached the upper levels of the stratosphere because of the amazing work of those secondary characters and how well integrated they were in the story arc.

Seinfeld

	27-05-2004 23:59									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui k, Seinfeld is the greatest comedy of all time. It was tagged as a 'show about nothing' and that is what gave it, its charm. It harped on the neurosis's of life and on those four super-shallow characters in the middle.

It made fun of those neuroses, very much in a "this is the anti-Friends" sort of way. When Sex and City etc tries to copy 'neurotic shallowness' it just ends up being to serious and falling flat on its face. So, I agree with you. The misanthropy was excellent, as it showed how stupid the world and New York could be.

quote: The utterly silly, neurotic dialogic and utterly ludicrous priorities they placed on things make the show a work of comedic art.

I agree. To my British mind, most American sitcoms seem overly neurotic and whacky, but if it's done properly it towers over British attempts (Coupling, anyone?)

quote: Add that to the amazing casting.

This is true. Something often missing in sitcoms, especially British ones. Good acting can make or break a sitcom(like Dad's army in GB, or Only Fools).

Give me a couple of hours to suggest a British giant to compare with Seinfeld...... I'll be back.

	28-05-2004 00:07									#70
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quote: The misanthropy was excellent, as it showed how stupid the world and New York could be.

Oh indeed! In fact it deliberatly played up those neuroses to the absurd level just to show how crazy and nuts some common neuroses are. Such as dumping a woman because her hands are too big or because she eats funny or something. It is totally silly because it is all blown up, but you can easily see how dumb some of your own neuroses are from it.

quote: To my British mind, most American sitcoms seem overly neurotic and whacky

If Brits are going to complain about 'whacky' I suggest they look at Monty Python's Flying Circus, Blackadder, Father Ted, and other strange (and hilarious) comedies they have over the pond.

Neurotic, yes. It is what makes Seinfeld AND Fraiser so wonderful. In Frasier, the neurotic-ness of Frasier and Niles is a joy to watch.

quote: Give me a couple of hours to suggest a British giant to compare with Seinfeld...... I'll be back.

I shall be waiting then .

	28-05-2004 00:15									#71
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I would argue that British comedies aren't whacky, because they aren't self-conscious about it. British comedy is more "this version of the world is weird, but it has its own laws and logic". Wheras whackyness in something like Friends means the characters seem to step outside their normal parameters.

	28-05-2004 00:18									#72
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Ah... well under that definition of wacky, I'd imagine 'Monty Python' is still wacky. I'd argue it may be the definition of wacky in a television series (perhaps "Kids in the Hall" eclipses it).

	28-05-2004 00:30									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison That woman on the cover is giving that soldier a really 'dirty' look You Americans liked Lord Of The Rings didn't you? Please remind me, where was JRR Tolkien from again

Uh, South Africa

Or are you enough of a JRRT geek to explain the tangled course of his boyhood

	28-05-2004 00:34									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Seinfeld was good, but thats because it had a core of British type misanthropy to it.

Id say more eastern european Jewish misanthropy, selfdeprecating humor etc. Seinfeld is just another heir to the "borscht belt" and the long tradition of New York American Jewish humor.

So why is there no such comedic tradition among London Jews? Numbers too small? No show business tradition (but why not?) Greater pressure to assimilate?

	28-05-2004 00:38									#75
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The skit in Life of Brian with the people's judean liberation front was funny and the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy was funny. Most things are funny with a little British humor but Benny Hill levels are too much.
British Sci-Fi is great.
I think Blake's 7 and Doctor WHo were both ahead of their time. At least ahead of Special Effects.

	28-05-2004 00:51									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Pax I think Blake's 7 and Doctor WHo were both ahead of their time. At least ahead of Special Effects.

Ah yes. While Kubrick and Trumbull pottered about like rank amateurs, the makers of "Dr Who" were wrapping jobbing actors in bubble-wrap, spray-painting them green and calling them aliens. Genius!

Blake's 7, on the other hand, looked nearly as good as Star Trek did 10 years earlier.

	28-05-2004 00:53									#77
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Anyway, for a taste of real British comedy check out "Spaced", "Brass Eye" and "Black Books".

	28-05-2004 01:22									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Pax British Sci-Fi is great.

You should check out our scifi authors,

No americans have come close to Iain M Banks, Stephen Baxter and Alastair Reynolds

	28-05-2004 01:25									#79
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Do you consider Asimov to be an American?

Philip K. Dick has none of those immigration concerns however.

	28-05-2004 01:29									#80
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quote: And why do Americans like Benny Hill?

Because they'r evil retards unable to spot humour when it's shoved up their asses?

	28-05-2004 01:50									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Do you consider Asimov to be an American? Philip K. Dick has none of those immigration concerns however.

Okay, to be specific.

No american still alive comes close ok?

	28-05-2004 03:17									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison ...Only Fools and Horses.

What was that? A documentary on the United Kingdom?

	28-05-2004 04:53									#83
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark So why is there no such comedic tradition among London Jews? Numbers too small? No show business tradition (but why not?) Greater pressure to assimilate?

Alexei Sayle, Ben Elton, Sacha Baron Cohen (a.k.a., Ali G.), Jo Brand and Michael Balcon (of the Ealing Studios and Ealing Comedies fame), Miriam Margolyes, Maureen Lipman, Jack Rosenthal, Mike Leigh, John Bluthal, Mike and Bernie Winters, Sid James (born Sidney Cohen in South Africa, came to represent the quintessential London 'cheeky chappie' in 'Carry On' films and British television sitcoms):

http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/ar...ry_of_jewis.htm

Not all of them are Londoners, obviously, but there's been a London-based Jewish comedic tradition since arrival in the East End following Russian pogroms. The London music hall used to regularly feature Jewish comedians.


'Only Fools and Horses'

What was that? A documentary on the United Kingdom?

- Ghengisfarb

No, a documentary on what Caligula thought to make a consul of Rome, and its evident superiority to all the occupants so far of the Oval Office.

	28-05-2004 05:08									#84
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quote: You Americans liked Lord Of The Rings didn't you? Please remind me, where was JRR Tolkien from again

Provost PWNZERS!!!111

	28-05-2004 05:09									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison ...and then there's all those simply hilarious Belgian comedies

Oi !!!! I'm on your side here

* alva wonders wether PH has actually ever seen any Belgian comedy
* alva thinks not
* alva ponders...mmmm
* alva has not either.

	28-05-2004 05:29									#86
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The reason British comedy is better is because the settings are infinitely more bleak and dark. As opposed to American comedies, which mostly seem to be set in really nice apartments or houses.

	28-05-2004 05:40									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman The reason British comedy is better is because the settings are infinitely more bleak and dark. As opposed to American comedies, which mostly seem to be set in really nice apartments or houses.

'Rab C. Nesbit'.

The American version of 'Cracker' stank- they'd relocated it to Californianywhere instead of run down council estates, and Fitz didn't smoke- just had a cigarette tucked behind his ear.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I always think of 'This Life' and 'Shallow Grave' as being the real British equivalents of 'Friends'.

	28-05-2004 07:57									#88
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quote: Originally posted by el freako You should check out our scifi authors, No americans have come close to Iain M Banks, Stephen Baxter and Alastair Reynolds

Amen to that! Iain M. Banks is great! Not just his SciFi either...The Wasp Factory is one of my all time favourites.

	28-05-2004 08:02									#89
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quote: "...maybe we do go in for violence and sex a bit more than some other countries..."

I cannot believe noone has mentioned this bit - America is a prude. You have to go to Europe to see topless beaches, suggestive advertising, Amsterdam, etc.

(Yes, I know it is satire.)

	28-05-2004 09:11									#90
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Self loathing is a British trait so if they find themselves almost unbearable what chance is there of them liking anyone else?