31-05-2004 08:08									#1
	ENERGY--How much do you get? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

After seeing Jamski's pictures of building bases with 1 square gaps, I was wondering, how much energy do you get per base?

On average, late in the game, I usually get 60-80, but my bases are 2-3 squares apart, and I don't use crawlers a lot, just hybrid forests.

My bases appear to produce more energy than those in the base pattern Jamski and others use, but in any given area, I won't have as many bases, so which gives more energy total?

I'd also like to now how much energy you guys all get total, specifically how many energy credits per turn. Size of planet, difficulty level, and faction you're playing would be nice to know too. Personally, playing Morgan on a standard map, I might get 400-500 per turn, but that's if I have maybe 10 bases, as I'm not very expansionist at all.

I saw somewhere in a post a while back somebody was getting like 2700 or very close. I'd like to see their game.

	31-05-2004 12:23									#2
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It depends on the game, of course.
I'm yet to survive past MMI in a PBEM, and I try to avoid the MEGA tactics in Singleplayer. (Way too damn easy to win if I do that)

I remember 500/turn in 2200 once, but maybe that was Raw energy instead of ECs.

	31-05-2004 13:01									#3
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Lots of people build solar farms on highlands for crawlers or tidal farms for supply foils. A moderate investment in formers can pump up the energy fairly early. Getting over 100 for a mature city isn't uncommon.

	31-05-2004 13:33									#4
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Year: 2220
City:
Pop: 13 (morgan with Ascetic Virtues)
SPs:
Many, but economy-related: Longevity Vaccine, Merchant Exchange
Commerce:
4Pacts
1Treaty
Layout:
6Boreholes
All other-Hybrid forests
Facilities:
Energy Bank, Tree Farm, Hybrid Forest, Fusion Lab + 15 Orbital Energy Transmitters
City producing:
6Bores - 6*9 = 54(ME+river+economy)
8Forests - 8*5 = 40(forest+river+economy+ME)
Basesquare - 11(IIRC)
Transmitters - 15

Therefore raw production: ~120 ecs

Commerce triples production (3pactmates are humans & having almost the same raw output in their capitals)

Therefore raw input: ~360 ecs
Economy allocation - 50% (40%-labs, 10%-psych)
Economy bonus - 250% (EB+TF+HF+FL+ME)
output = 180*3.5 = 600+ energy

NO CRAWLERS!
I had to remove from my energy park because of only 2 factions with which I had Vendetta - those guys were just extreme in military!
They fought 2 vs me (I had no so loyal mates to support me) & They sought to destroy my EP because I had almost 80% of ECs needed for Economic Victory..
I won Economic anyway!
..only 10 turns later

Overall faction energy production was 2700+, IIRC..
Tech/1turn also..

Its not hard to achieve for anyone - just use everything the game offers & trade as much as you can to get techs rapidly & commerce flowing

Was a boring game - almost no fighting at all except those 2 trying to quickly deny me Economic Victory..

I saw them running and quickly upgraded my 0-1-1 crawlers to 0-<6>-1*2 crawlers..
The sensors helped out too, so their 13-1-10*2 Choppers died in awful numbers!
&that WAS fun in the end!

good old times..eh..

	31-05-2004 17:50									#5
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Hmm - I can't put AAA Tracking (<>) on my crawlers in either smac nor smax (and haven't heard of anyone else managing it either)

Have you changed the flags in your alpha.txt to allow it for supply units?

G.

	31-05-2004 18:14									#6
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quote: Hmm - I can't put AAA Tracking (<>) on my crawlers in either smac nor smax (and haven't heard of anyone else managing it either) Have you changed the flags in your alpha.txt to allow it for supply units? G.

Oops, yeah, and the others in that game didnt notice it either!
I changed it ~3yrs ago when I made some modifications in Alphax.txt
I thought I had repaired it all afterwards..

Thanx, Googlie!

Will repair it ASAP & hope that those guys who attacked me dont ever visit Poly!

	31-05-2004 18:25									#7
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LOL

GGLIE

	31-05-2004 20:14									#8
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They must have been so pissed when their shard choppers died to your lowly crawlers

-Jam

	31-05-2004 20:23									#9
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Well, I've only played one SP game properly from start to finish. By 2207 (Transcendence next turn) I was getting 2107 energy credits per turn and 19771.5 lab points per turn with 100 % labs allocation. Putting all the energy on economy would have given me 6982 credits per turn. My SSC was producing 4311 labs per turn, and I never got a proper energy park running. This was with the University, btw.

	31-05-2004 20:32									#10
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Uni doesn't affect how much labs you get per turn, but affects the cost of each tech. Just pointing that out.

-Jam

	31-05-2004 20:43									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Uni doesn't affect how much labs you get per turn, but affects the cost of each tech. Just pointing that out. -Jam

The research bonus's main function is to increase the amount of lab points you get per turn, if I'm not mistaken. That is, a +2 research rating means you get 1.2 times the normal lab points.

	31-05-2004 20:47									#12
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin Oops, yeah, and the others in that game didnt notice it either! I changed it ~3yrs ago when I made some modifications in Alphax.txt I thought I had repaired it all afterwards.. Thanx, Googlie! Will repair it ASAP & hope that those guys who attacked me dont ever visit Poly!

Do we make it an official 'poly rule that modded Alphax.txt s are not to be used while playing PBEMs (unless specifically modified for that PBEM)?

	31-05-2004 20:54									#13
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Jamski: through testing I've discovered that your current Research rating has NO direct effect on tech cost (it has an indirect effect in that the more techs you have, the more they cost). Your current Research rating increases your lab output, and does nothing else.

Your faction's base Research rating does alter your tech costs, as described in Industry, Growth, and Economy.

	31-05-2004 21:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Minute Mirage Well, I've only played one SP game properly from start to finish. By 2207 (Transcendence next turn)...

Do you have a series of saves of that game showing how you accomplished that?

	01-06-2004 01:06									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Do you have a series of saves of that game showing how you accomplished that?

I posted a few saves in this thread. I do have saves for every turn of the game, so I can send other turns of the game if you're interested.

	01-06-2004 18:24									#16
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Thanks for the link. I downloaded your decennial saves and had a look at them. Also thanks for the offer to send me all the yearly saves, but I have some exams this month, so currently I most likely wouldn't have the time to check out your saves anyway.