01-06-2004 02:30									#1
	Experts test my game Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hey everyone. ok I originally borrowed my friends copy of Civ 3 when it first came out but did not have the time to really play.
Well I'm trying it again and I wanted to get the experts opinion of how I'm doing. i'm giving my first turn and how i played up to 10 ad. I have read most of the forums but have not put most of it to test. Be brutal and be honest and thanks for your input.


Frylock

	01-06-2004 02:31									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hees the second save.

Attachment: logan of the americans, 10 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	01-06-2004 02:32									#3
	Tired of ads?

somehow missed the first.

Attachment: logan of the americans, 4000 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	01-06-2004 03:08									#4
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2 things - irrigate as well as biuld mines, and dont bother building walls (this is a personal thing, to me they are pretty pointless)

Asides from that its good - expanding quick without overstretching, researching as much as possible etc etc

Enjoy!

	01-06-2004 04:52									#5
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First it is a good idea to give us the game settings.

What is the map size, type and level. I looked at it and see it is Warlord with 7 players.

Research, I would prefer to see you go for Republic before some of the other stuff and make the switch. After getting the GL build is a good time.

You do not need worry about the anarchy time then. Once you have the GL, you can decide to go all out for research or use the GL and do no research.

You need tohave all contacts, 3 civs are not known to you at this point. Just because you have a pangea map, does not mean a curragh or galley is not a good idea.

They could have circle the map by now and found the Romans and maybe the others (French/Iroq).

I would never make a colony, it would require a very special circumstance. Instead you could have founded a city on top of it. Using the one for New Orleans.

City placement could stand a bit of touch up. NY is too far away and not next to that nice river. This will force you to build an aqua there.

I would rather see Miami over one tile (4). This would have gotten founded one turn sooner and be closer to the capitol.

In general, I would prefer to see CxxC, not CxxxC. You cn of course do it and win at this level, but it is a habit that will cost you at higher levels.

Given you are expanison civ, you should have seen a lot more of the map by now. What is the barb setting?

I see you have founded a number of cities with unescorted settlers, so I am guessing no barbs or sedintary. No barbs would be bad for your civ.

The land is not great as you only have two lux that you can have and no extra unless you get the other silk. At warlord, you can make do, but I would want to be gearing up to annex some more. The spices the Aztecs have will do.

	01-06-2004 07:45									#6
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What is this map, is it a CivIII or a PTW? I noticed that a forrest chop is 7 turns for an industious civ. So it is not C3C.

	01-06-2004 08:54									#7
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Watch out that was a porn site.

	01-06-2004 09:06									#8
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Frylock I played this out to around 230AD with lose placement.
I built the Pyramids and the Great LIb and Oracle. When I built the colossus it trigger a GA. I also built the lighthouse.

Going to switch to republic as soon as the last tech is done in a few turns. Markets are up in some cities and libs in many.

Got about 3500 in gold and swords are kicking the Iroq archers.
Going to send out a galley to find the Romans, must be on an island as I have seen all of the land.

I made about 4 scouts to grab so many huts, I lost count. Got one advance city, but it was far off in the jungle, so I abandon it.

Everyone is way behind. I sold Math to all for all the gold they had.

I ran into one of the civs very early with a worker in the capitol and 10 gold, so I trade Bronze working for it.

I went scout, warrior, scout and delayed making a settler for a long time. I got one settler right away form a hut, so I knew it was going to be too easy.

I tossed in at least one or two more scout soon after.

	01-06-2004 10:40									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

geeez, what's that..... people starting to post serious spam on these boards?

	01-06-2004 10:41									#10
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ok, some moderator removed it already.

	01-06-2004 19:36									#11
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Frylock, I should point out that using an expansion civ on a map like this at the lower levels, is probably too powerful.

The AI will not have extra units to start and not make scouts, so you can crank out several and get most of the huts. I even got one next to the Aztecs start point.

With all of the free tech, gold and warriors and maybe a settler or two, it is very strong.

	02-06-2004 05:47									#12
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Thanks for your replies. The game is regular civ 3 with the latest patch. I have only tried the americans so far. The way I have learned to play so far is first city build warrior, settler, granary, worker, settler, barracks, etc. trading off between worker settler and improvement. Of course it is not necessarily in that order, it depends on where the city is. I usualy expand in an outward circular motion with 4 spaces whenever possible. In the news cities i usually start with worker or warrior/spearman(either way i do one then the next), temple, settler, granary. After granary i then determine what that cities best at production or settlers/workers. As far as tech I go for iron, horses and temples first(dont remember the actual names) then try to either gor for GL or Monarchy.

The game setting had roaming barbs, but so far I have not had any trouble with unescorted settlers. Although that will probably have to change when/if I move up levels.

Did you start the game from the beginning , vmxa1? Because i have never been able to get that much gold. Im usually around 200 or below putting everything towards science.

Also I know its part of the game but selling, trading techs seems wrong to me. Im used to not having to work with the Civs to stay with/ahead of them.

When you started the war how many units did you have?

Ill also try throwing in more scouts and using them more.

Thanks vmxa1 and spy14 for your input.

Frylock

	02-06-2004 07:50									#13
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I had some confusion, since I used C3C to play it from the 4000bc.
So I would build Shakespear and it would show I could now have more than size 12, but I could not.

No big issues, but it has been a long time since I played vanilla civIII.

Since this was a warlord game, I knew I could get away without defenders and I knew no one was real close. So I ran out a bunch of scouts. This is not always a good plan.

It turned out I did not see any barbs for a long time, so it was safe to send them out unescorted. Also at this level the barbs cannot beat your troops. I have been playing a lot of Sid were barbs kill ancient units regularly.

Your build is not a bad one, except be careful about barracks. They can be over done. It is just the map set itself up for a unique strategy.

It is best to use one or two cities to do most of the creation of settlers and workers. In this game I used two. I then often build a worker first in a new city as it can't build much for a time.

As to temples, I would say for warlord and this map, you can delay making them. The AI will not be close for a while and will not be able to make culture better than you. You do not need to worry about happiness that much for quite a long time. You get 3 contents, so once you hook up one lux the first few cities wil be bouncing bewteen 4 and 6 pop.

By the time you get to 6, you can drop a temple and be free.

As to tech, I did not bother researching until I had all most all the ancient techs, just ran at 10%. I expected to get most from huts and I did. At this level you must do all of the research on your own, even if you have the GL.

That is one reason why I had lots of cash, that and better tile improvements. If you keep up enough workers to improve all worked tiles, you will be strong.

You should not go by me for trades as I am known for not liking to do them. I made one trade early to take their cash and slow them down on research and did very little after that.

In fact on the second war, I let the English unite all against me. I could have given tech and got all on my side, which I did in the first war (just for fun).

I am not sure as I did not note when the war came, but I would not have all that many units. I like to get by with a small army when I can.

I just took advantage of knowing when they would come and where and used better units than them.

I can't remember ever playing a game where I build every wonder as I have in this one. I am about to finish steel and go to combustion and I have all wonders to date. All small wonders are up as well.

I think the fact that I am using C3C prevented me from using a leader to rush a wonder, but that is ok. I have had 3 and made 3 armies and built the 4th in the MA.

So all armies are 4x. even though armies are not as good as C3C, they still are nice.

I have some saves if you want to see any.

Attachment: logan of the americans, 1826 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	04-06-2004 01:11									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

BTW someting is wrong with the game, maybe due to my using C3C to play it. Anyway when the culture hit 20k in DC, the game went to the part where it tells you your magnifico and it crashed?

I noticed as the screen from final score flashed by that it had my score as -10xxx?

	04-06-2004 19:46									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Probably a vanilla Civ > conquests thing, I never found the time to take the game that far due to work/girlfreind/pub/car.

In no order of priority!