01-06-2004 14:04									#1
	Iroquois Anomaly? Increase Your PM Length

It seems that the Six Nations are not thought well of around here. I often see suggestions along the lines of strengthening the Iroquois.

In almost every game I've played in which the Iroquois were an AI opponent, they jumped out to an early lead over all their neighbors and maintained that dominance well into modern times.

They especially seem to play well against the other AIs but they often do a good job of hamstringing me, too.

Anyone else have a particular civ that always seems to be your nemesis?

	01-06-2004 16:26									#2
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Every nation that has mobile unit with attack of 3 and Agricultural trait is powerful (like Iroquois or Celts).

	01-06-2004 19:22									#3
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The commerce trait lets them have a larger OCN, which helps in later game too.

	01-06-2004 19:29									#4
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Egyptians. Thay are not that agressive, but they usually beat the other AIs and become really, really powerful.

	01-06-2004 23:39									#5
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hi ,

the US of A

have a nice day

	02-06-2004 00:40									#6
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Their Vanilla & PTW strength may have been debatable since Exp was worthless on some maps, but C3C Iroquois are incredibly strong IMO.

	02-06-2004 01:55									#7
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Yup in C3C Iroq moved up and US moved down (industry took a hit).

	02-06-2004 07:03									#8
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The AI does really well with the Inca

	02-06-2004 07:06									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yup in C3C Iroq moved up and US moved down (industry took a hit).

Double take...double entendre?

	02-06-2004 07:08									#10
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In general, good land = strong AI whatever their traits.

	02-06-2004 11:10									#11
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Every nation that has mobile unit with attack of 3 and Agricultural trait is powerful (like Iroquois or Celts).

Great Civs that are a pleasure to lead into the many era's and as much combat as available

	04-06-2004 06:57									#12
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The Zulus are my nemesis. I don't know how, but they always turn into a killer AI, and they really like to throw their weight around. Zulus! Fahsands of 'em!

	05-06-2004 09:19									#13
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The Zulus were always a pain in any game they appear. Perhaps the annoyance factor of a race is a function of wherever their aggression level is set.

	05-06-2004 09:20									#14
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , the US of A have a nice day

In the game or real world?

	05-06-2004 17:24									#15
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The Zulus always self-destruct in my games. Can only recall one game in which they lasted into the Modern Times.

	06-06-2004 07:41									#16
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Every nation that has mobile unit with attack of 3 and Agricultural trait is powerful (like Iroquois or Celts).

Uhhh... the Iroqs and the Celts are the only two civs that meet both of these requirements.

	11-06-2004 01:58									#17
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The Maya, Hittites, and India always seem to be a pain in my games.

	11-06-2004 03:51									#18
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That dang smirking fool Gilgamesh ALWAYS leverages himself into a superpower in my game. Not in the current game (since I AM Sumeria), but in any game where I see Gilgamesh he's always whipping up on everyone. Same for Lincoln, America seems to always become strong. I've never seen the Hittites strong, and in several games saw them quite weak and marginalized (same with the Zulu, sadly). The Maya and Inca also usually put in strong showings.

	13-06-2004 15:37									#19
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French and persians are often a problem. As are the English and Americans, but 9 times out of 10 i'll be playing as one or the other of these.

	15-06-2004 08:31									#20
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India?! England and America?...

The only time I've ever seen India survive well into the Industrial was when they happened to get their own large continent with ocean on all sides.

England is usually marginalized well before the industrial age and the Americans in my games have a lousy habit of getting stuck on tiny islands or next to the Mongols. They do a nice job of eliminating someone early in the ancient period.

	20-06-2004 23:00									#21
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Im currently in a game with the Iroquois which are very powerfull and very advanced even the americans are having trouble fighting them there a pain + there at war with everyone and winning hopefully i trying to stop that.

	21-06-2004 23:01									#22
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Iroquis normally make a formidable AI civ. Great traits plus an early killer UU tend to spell doom for neighboring AIs. A real powerful ancient era civ.

	22-06-2004 03:44									#23
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Heh, in one game I saw America get conquered and split in half like Poland in WW2 by the Iroquois and the French.

	24-06-2004 20:32									#24
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Persia, Sumeria,and Egypt if I don't try early wars and build instead....Greece and Carthage if I do

	25-06-2004 04:42									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Cimmuria Persia, Sumeria,and Egypt if I don't try early wars and build instead....Greece and Carthage if I do

I can understand not using Sumeria and Egypt for early wars (although they are decent at waging them) but Persia? Persia is one of the Civ's that are most suited towards early wars. Immortals kick ass in the ancient age and they don't need to be upgraded until reaching the Industrial age. When playing Persia; I research to IW, get Iron online, and start cranking out the Immortals. What techs that you do not research early can be either extorted or taken in a peace treaty.

	25-06-2004 08:12									#26
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Any game I've played that involved Sumeria usually ended up as me vs. Sumeria, the superpower. I honestly can't remember a game where they weren't playing a little smashy-smashy on their neighbors.

The Aztecs used to give me quite a bit of trouble. I just finished my first game using them, and just WOW. I had no idea how powerful an early GA could be, until my Jags defeated a sneak Mayan attack and my cities turned into settler factories.

	26-06-2004 05:17									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar The AI does really well with the Inca

unless playing an earth map of some sort and they start in their correct starting position

	26-06-2004 05:19									#28
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Has anyone created a perfectly symetrical map with exactly the same terrain for each and every civ to test to accurately see which civs do well and which do not.

I would like to rule out starting position.

	26-06-2004 05:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by CarnalCanaan India?! England and America?... The only time I've ever seen India survive well into the Industrial was when they happened to get their own large continent with ocean on all sides. England is usually marginalized well before the industrial age and the Americans in my games have a lousy habit of getting stuck on tiny islands or next to the Mongols. They do a nice job of eliminating someone early in the ancient period.

India did well in my game on the 362 X 362 earth map. I played china and I never threatened them. So they managed to stay away from wars.

They can do well if they stay away from wars it seems.

	26-06-2004 09:53									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar The AI does really well with the Inca

I have noticed that they do seem to start out with a big surge (similar to the Iroquois) but often fade in the industrial/modern eras when the Maya's science and the Aztec's aggression get the upper hand.

I agree also with the comments made about Sumeria. Somehow they seem to leverage themselves into a superpower position in all of my games. I'm not sure why. Their UU is a defensive specialist. Although the Ag + Science traits do give them a big, highly productive population. They are often leading the way technologically and unlike the Greeks or Babylonians, they can put together a sizeable enough empire early on to use that newfound technology effectively.

Nonetheless, no one -- not Egypt or Mongolia or Inca or Sumeria -- seem to be so overwhelmingly superior to all other AIs AND myself for the entire duration of a game as the Six Nations.

(Maybe that's why no one let them in on the Treaty of Paris... anyone know of good books/resources on the subject?)