02-06-2004 08:10									#1
	Help with Rexing Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have been having difficulty with rexing. I have heard reports of out-expending the AI on deity and sid, and I would really like to know how to do this. What exactly is the secret to fast expansion.
I have attempted the warrior-worker-warrior-granery-settler build orders and similar ones, but they don't seem to be much faster. I assume I must be doing something wrong. Any tips?

	02-06-2004 09:41									#2
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Out rexing the AI on sid, I am not sure that is a correct way of phrasing it. They can lay down their first 10 cities as fast as I can get my second, not all the time, but I have seen them do it with a debug run.

I expect they mean that once you get going you will grow faster than they do, but it will be a while before you are building cities as fast as they do. Even then, it is typically because they are slowing down on purpose.

The best thing to do on a land mass with enough room, is to a build a few camps/pumps. Use them to crank out settlers/workers and troops. Mostly not troops at first. If you can get one doing a 4 turn settler you should be fat. If it is 5 turns, then you will probably need to bust a worker every now and then, depending on your level and luxs.

	02-06-2004 14:34									#3
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yea zorbop, as vmxa1 says you cant really out REx AI in sid. however you can REX REALLY fast if you can be certain of a couple of things.
eg if Barbarians are OFF, you have no AIs near or your on an island on your own.
then dont build ANY military units. ofc you need to know when you will need a military, so this is not recomended unless ur fully aware of the world situation and how/where u may be attacked .

also traits play a part, obviously being Agriculture helps, but also any civ that has pottery can potentially have the following buildorders

Granery-settler-settler-settler-settler

personally i never mix a city producing workers and settlers, i pick a use for a city (ie i'll make workers here, or i'll build up infrastructure here or settler pump or galley pump)

ofcourse to rex properly you need many workers, i recently saw here on these boards someone (might have been vmxa1, if not u know who u are ) quoted a recommendation of 2 workers per city during the rex period, then as your need for workes decreases get them to join your cities.

	02-06-2004 22:22									#4
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Well you will need a least one MP and soon two to offset the unhappy citizens.

I did not say it, but I will want to have extra workers when I get close to starting my prebuild for the GL. I want to add in workers to built up to size 12.

I often do not have Masonary and can't get much of a start, so I need the full city with the tiles mined.

Otherwise I want as many workers as I need to have all worked tiles improved. That will be somewhere around 1.5 for a non industrious civ. This is true at any level for me.

	04-06-2004 04:55									#5
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So, if the AI has 10 cities down (I hope that's total and not 10 for each Civ) how in the name of Sid Meier is anyone supposed to compete ?

You build you workers and start mining the landscape, so you can grow and start pumping out settlers, just so you have have a chance at the luxuries and resources. Resources like iron, saltpeter, coal, horses, oil so you can get a decent military so when your enemies decide that your tech that they don't have is worth going to war for (even though their people consider your Civ backwards and underdeveloped).

I dunno, I better quit. This is starting to sound too much like real life.



Seriously though, I have seen where alot of people like the REXing approach. Myself included. Durned if I can make it work right though.

And if I am understanding things correctly, the more difficult your setting the more help the game gives the AI. As if the game needs any help kicking my butt.

I guess the trick is to take as many Civs out as early in the game as you can?

	04-06-2004 05:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by I'mNowCivilized So, if the AI has 10 cities down (I hope that's total and not 10 for each Civ) how in the name of Sid Meier is anyone supposed to compete ?

Unfortunetly it is 10 towns for one civ and 5 or more for all the others. They start with two settlers and will often start settlers in all the towns. They have 12 def and 6 off units start, so they do not need to make any.

Start a game in debug for just 10 turns, it is a riot.

Anyway you can win, but it is work.

	04-06-2004 05:53									#7
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quote: Originally posted by I'mNowCivilized You build you workers and start mining the landscape, so you can grow and start pumping out settlers, just so you have have a chance at the luxuries and resources. Resources like iron, saltpeter, coal, horses, oil so you can get a decent military so when your enemies decide that your tech that they don't have is worth going to war for (even though their people consider your Civ backwards and underdeveloped). I dunno, I better quit. This is starting to sound too much like real life. Seriously though, I have seen where alot of people like the REXing approach. Myself included. Durned if I can make it work right though. And if I am understanding things correctly, the more difficult your setting the more help the game gives the AI. As if the game needs any help kicking my butt. I guess the trick is to take as many Civs out as early in the game as you can?

No need to take civs out, unless they are next to you. It is an option, but you can win without being a warrior. It is more a matter of taste.

Some pruning is good. If you buy a worker or capture a work or settler early, that will really hurt a civ.

Really all you need to do is make the capitol and the second city do most of the early settlers and workers early in the game.

If you are on a very large landmass with lots of open spaces, you may need another city or two making them part time. If it is just a normal situation, where you can see the neighbor not to far away, you won't need all that many settlers and will need some troops sooner.

	04-06-2004 06:44									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 If you are on a very large landmass with lots of open spaces, you may need another city or two making them part time. If it is just a normal situation, where you can see the neighbor not to far away, you won't need all that many settlers and will need some troops sooner.

So is this a good way to get cities, wait for your neighbor to attack then take over his developed cities?

	04-06-2004 06:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Start a game in debug for just 10 turns, it is a riot.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this.

	04-06-2004 07:31									#10
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If you go to the editor and select generate map, it will create a game map. Use the scenario option and you will see the debug check box. Select it.

Save the map and load it as civ content. The game will play in debug mode and you will be able to see everything that happens.
Play as Sid and you can see in a short while how many towns the AI will lay down.

Try not to be scared, but it is frightening.

PS I can't recall if you need to select custom maps or not, but think not.

	04-06-2004 07:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by I'mNowCivilized So is this a good way to get cities, wait for your neighbor to attack then take over his developed cities?

It is a good way, sort of. I mean you can't just wait, but instead prepare for the time when a war breaks out and then grab as many cities as it makes sense to hold.

In some games you may elect to use an early rush to either grab a city or two or just pillage to slow them down. I have not use this tactic in a long time, but it can be effective.

Many articles are about that talk about it. The last one was put up by Trip.

I like to rex out and then build up awaiting the AI's attack and then grab a few cities and build more infrastructure. Soon the whole thing is repeated. This is a slow death for the closes civ.

Some players like to just to blitz and nearly wipe them out. I never use that tactic, but it can be just fine.

IOW there are so many ways to go, that is why you can play after all this time. Play different styles, change up for different levels, it all good.

	04-06-2004 09:45									#12
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Huh, i always thought the 'build 4 cities and then conquer' tactic was never really used and most people just rexed. Glad i'm doing nothing wrong.