02-06-2004 11:21									#1
	Swapping Maps Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I completed a game yesterday in which the AI civs did not agree to map swapping at any time throughout the game. I repeatedly tech gifted them to Worshipful, but they never had any interest in my useless English maps.

This has never happened to me before - how common is it?

The only explanation I can think of is that I was allied to the Celts early in the game and they wandered all over my territory (thus mapping it). If they then swapped with other AI civs then my maps would contain little new.

Do the AI civs "know" how much new information is available on your map and take this into consideration when considering a request for exchanging maps?

RJM at Sleeper's

	02-06-2004 18:11									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This is certainly odd, since once they worship, I have only seen them refuse to trade when they lack Map Making as a tech.

In my games, even after they "know" my own area from a trade with me, they will trade again immediately afterwards, even if I do not uncover any new terrain. Whether or not I have alliances does not seem to matter either.

What was your power rating at this time? Most dealings with the AI are linked to this in some way.

	02-06-2004 20:31									#3
	Got spare money?

I've never seen this either. If you have a save you could post, several of us can see if we get the same results. I bet we won't which would point to reinstalling the game.

Standing by...

Monk

	03-06-2004 00:16									#4
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Yes, I have also never seen this lacking mapmaking.
Of course they're usually begging me for my map.

	03-06-2004 01:44									#5
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Map making + worshipful = never seen that fail ... yet

	03-06-2004 10:16									#6
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I don't think I have a save, but I'll look through the folder to check. My power rating when it first happened was supreme. I think I slipped to mighty and strong at points later in the game and I think I got the same response. I was playing the English (orange) - does this make any difference? The game version was 2.42 which as far as I know has no negotiaion bugs.

In my current game (without reinstalling) I got a map swap at cordial.

My impression is that there is a random element in the AI decision on map swapping. Was I just unlucky?

Contrary to LF's experience, I have certainly had refusals at worshipful before - usually at first contact with one of the more aggressive civs - but not such a long string and from all the other civs.

RJM at Sleeper's

	03-06-2004 11:24									#7
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I guess they become less aggressive when looking at my affable face .

	03-06-2004 17:24									#8
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I guess the question to ask you is if you were sure any refusals came from civs having the Map Making tech.

	04-06-2004 10:55									#9
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette I guess they become less aggressive when looking at my affable face .

I've seen what you can do in the succession games and scenarios. I'm not surprised the AI has learned to treat you with respect.

quote: Originally posted by solo I guess the question to ask you is if you were sure any refusals came from civs having the Map Making tech.

It's possible that my first request(s) may have been to a civ (or civs) that didn't have map making. Certainly later requests were to civs with map making since I swapped for it. Is it possible that some flag gets set and then failed to get unset?

I've looked for a game save, but despite the amount of crap on my hard disk, I couldn't find one. I tend to use the same country and naming conventions so that previous games get over writtten.

Actually, I think the most probable explanation is the one put forward by BM. Something in the game became corrupted, but was cleared by a reboot. Whatever the reason, the AI civs got the message from LF in my current game and they've all been as good as little lambs.

RJM at Sleeper's

	04-06-2004 20:26									#10
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I am glad to hear it has cleared up and that you are getting more respect/response from the AI. If it ever happens again, I suggest you chant La Fayette as a mantra. It will go away for sure if you do that.

Monk

	04-06-2004 20:42									#11
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In general, if you both have MapMaking, their Attitude is Worshipful, your Rep is Spotless and you have an embassy or MPE/UN, they MUST trade maps with you. If any of those conditions fails or is lowered the probability goes down, with the exception of MapMaking - if you both do not have it it will never work. With Spotless and Marco Polo I have traded maps at Cordial but never Receptive; without Marco Polo I have not succeeded below Enthusiastic.

	04-06-2004 21:43									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I suggest you chant La Fayette as a mantra. Monk

Of course a Monk's advice (especially a bloody one) should be taken into consideration as far as mantras are concerned.

	05-06-2004 02:52									#13
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But then, they should know a lot about chanting...