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Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 05-06-2004 22:38 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Scenario in progress Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm working on a challenging scenario against the AI. Here's the background I've come up for it:

5 factions successfully landed from the Unity: Morgan and his cronies, Yang and his trusting laborers, Aki Zeta-5 and the remnants of the Unity research crew, Svensgaard and the remnants of the Spartans, and against all odds, Miriam and those in the damaged 7th landing pod.

Over the first twenty years on Planet, Morgan and Yang met and formed a business alliance, with Morgan carefully developing Yang's laborers' initiative without inducing any desire for freedom, and with Yang training Morgan's followers in asceticism.

Svensgaard claimed the infinite seas and started preying on Morgan's commercial transports. In return, Morgan has sent some decoy transports, rigged to explode when boarded.

Miriam has decided that Yang and Aki Zeta-5 are abominations for their inhumanity and must be wiped off the face of Eden. She's not too fond of Morgan, either, for being a demon's ally. Svensgaard has carefully avoided attacking Miriam's transports, content to not be a target of her fanaticism.

Aki Zeta-5 has more or less carved out a peaceful niche for herself and her followers, but now is threatened by Miriam. In response to that, she has allied with Yang, on the principle that her enemy's enemy is her friend.

In the year 2120, Foreman Domai in Laborer's Throng successfully revolted against Yang's rule and formed the Free Drone faction. Although the base was quickly reconquered, with nerve gas, Domai and his fellow laborers fled to a remote region of Planet to found Utopia.

Domai views Aki Zeta-5 as dangerous, with her conflicting notion of Utopia, but has found a friend in Svensgaard, a fellow freedom-lover.

Taking advantage of the disruption caused by Domai, Asa Wright, head of Quality Assurance in Morgan Industries, capitalized on a plan she had been working on since Planetfall. She and some fellow hackers stole all of Morgan's technology and incited drones throughout his empire, while smuggling out supplies with which to found a freer, more cooperative society.

Roze's actions of course made enemies of both Yang and Morgan, but her love of Democracy has drawn some of Miriam's wrath, as well.


The starting year of the scenario will be about 2130, with several techs already known to each faction. The player will play the Data Angels, against the boosted AI opponents Miriam, Morgan, Yang, Svensgaard, Domai, and Aki Zeta-5.

I'd like any feedback on this description of the scenario, and I'd also like someone to help me test its difficulty when I have a preliminary version ready in a day or two.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
SMAC Stories Editor
Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 06-06-2004 00:11 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Got spare money?

I volunteer for testing . Interesting scenario - let me guess - you put atrocity commited against it tag on Yang, Morgan and Miriam?

Zeiter is offline Zeiter
Prince

Dec 2003
time: 23:36
  Old Post 06-06-2004 04:23
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I'll test it! This sounds like an interesting plot...

I always wished that SMAC had a feature that let a base revolt and create a new faction, instead of just siding with an existing one. Sure, that newly created faction could have a friendly disposition towards a faction, and could have a randomly picked idealism, but they would be a new faction that would start out the game only with that base's energy reserves and units, and the technology from the faction that it revolted from. In such a case, probe-raping would not be a problem, this game feature would be a lot like real life, and it would add another angle of strategy to the game. All that would be needed next would be to make revolting easier (say that any starving citizen turns into a drone, in addition to the previous requirement of the base rioting for at least two turns.) If starving conquered cities was no longer feasible, it would make conquering and holding cities MUCH more difficult. You'd have to rush police units into the new city ASAP, and if you tried to wage a war in FM, unless you had a lot of energy devoted to psych, forget about it!

Come on, we want SMAC 2 NOW!

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 06-06-2004 05:20 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Increase the size of your Attachments

Anyone who wants to help me evaluate a preliminary version of my scenario needs to be able to routinely stomp the AI on transcend, since I plan to make it considerably harder yet.

I have assigned some factions as atrocity victims of others, but not with reckless abandon. Diplomacy is part of the game and it wouldn't be fair to the player to deny any chance to negotiate with the AIs. Any grudge not severe enough to qualify as an atrocity I won't make an atrocity.

The modes of victory will be:
Transcendence (but only if the AI does not have the Voice of Planet - no stealing the win from the AI!)
Destroying what all of the other factions hold dear (this will be apparent in the scenario)
Diplomatic (possibly the easiest, and I may make this harder)
Economic (but first you must crush Morgan)

There will be a few unenforceable restrictions on the player's actions, a couple of which are the restrictions on Transcendence and Economic victory. Since I cannot enforce these in the game, you are on your honor to do it yourself.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
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  Old Post 06-06-2004 13:02 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Anyone who wants to help me evaluate a preliminary version of my scenario needs to be able to routinely stomp the AI on transcend, since I plan to make it considerably harder yet.

Good thing that I am qualified for testing.

Zeiter is offline Zeiter
Prince

Dec 2003
time: 23:36
  Old Post 06-06-2004 22:42
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Yep, I am up to the challenge. I've been looking for a really challenging game against the AI for a while.

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 00:34 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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In my scenario:
Each faction leader has something he holds most dear. If you capture an enemy HQ, you have a choice:

1. Return it to its original owner, or
2. Let your probe teams go to town with mind control probes on the faction leader who lives there. Burn down the base to complete the ravaging of his mind. The victim will become unable to experience that which he loves. The faction will hate you for the rest of its life, but will (hopefully) fight less effectively from then on.

During your journey to independence, sunspots erupted on Alpha Centauri A. At the start of the game, they are still raging.

Zeiter, obstructor: check your PM boxes.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 00:45 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Received. You will receive feedback tommorow.

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 00:54 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Thanks!

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
SMAC Stories Editor
Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 23:41 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Just opened scenario, and I must ask, is that DD`s map?

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 00:13 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Yes it is, though with a few modifications for the scenario's purposes.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
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Yes, I now have colony on the shores of Freshwater sea . BTW, nice work for now. AIs stole half of the SP ( ), and I am still the weakest faction (MY 2161).

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 01:07 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, keep in mind the power graph is broken, since you as the Angels have an aversion to power

It's good to hear the feedback. In one test run, the AI completed its first SP in 2155, but then completed 2 or 3 more immediately after that.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Jul 2003
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  Old Post 08-06-2004 01:15 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Tired of ads?

In my first run Morgan compelted PTS after 4 or 5 turns. Huh? This is the SP I miss the most. :´( .

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 01:49 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

4-5 turns sounds very fast. I didn't give any cities minerals already accumulated. In my runs, Morgan went for the PTS first, but didn't finish it so fast. Maybe he rushed it with the modest amount of energy I gave him, but that still shouldn't be enough. Math time...

30 rows for the PTS
210 mins for the AI
Assume he found an artifact: 50 mins
160 mins remaining
Assume ~10 mins/turn: 50 mins over 5 turns
110 mins remaining
That would still take 440 ECs, more than I gave him. Maybe he got really lucky and found two artifacts that fast?

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
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I am actually not sure about the time (seemed fast to me), but I know that just as I finished building of my first wave of CPs, he suddenly completed it next turn. I will see how he does in second run. Perhaps it was more, and Now I remember that it is some turns after sunspot ended (too bad I didn`t remember when).

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
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Just checked in nexus, he seems to lost two AAs?

Enigma_Nova is offline Enigma_Nova
King

Nov 2003
time: 14:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 02:02
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Full PM-box? Change here!

CT, an AA gives 5 rows when you cash it in, not 50 minerals.

- Enigma

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 02:39 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

E_N: From experience, I'm pretty sure an artifact actually gives a hard value of 50 minerals, not 5 rows. I know supply crawlers give values based on their row count, and disbanded units are like that, too, but I remember artifacts as an exception. I can't test that right now, though.

Chaunk is offline Chaunk
King
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 02:46
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Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm fairly sure an AA is a flat 50 min, regardless of industry. 99.9% sure infact.

binTravkin is offline binTravkin
Emperor
Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
time: 07:36
  Old Post 08-06-2004 15:06
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Im 100% sure about those 50mins/AA -> just checked on SMAX

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 11-06-2004 20:23 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Ah Chaos Theory, just letting you know that I tested your scenario even more. I see you too gave satelittes to AIs. I have a few questions: why did you change so much tech types ( I mean moving DAP to conque tech)? Was just because it seemed logical or it had some deeper motives? It is around 2215 now, and AIs are progressing at various ways - so much diffrent that even tech trade with them is very profitable. Thanks to fact that almost every faction is researching other thing, I managed to reach Will to Power+Homo Superior + Advanced Spaceflight by now. Even as I got faster to Homo Superior with that rate than to Orbital Spaceflight Those AIs. Also, with some heavy loans and crawler upgrading I took all projects from the 5th level up (last project that AI grabbed before me was Supercollider- by Believers), and now I have CV, CBA, HSA, TLR, DT and other stuff: . I suspect that I will transcend within 35 years at this rate. Also, I am at war with Miriam, Sven and Morgan. I have˙t spent any effort to my defences, since AIs were busy battling themselves, except that I had some naval forces securing waters around my teritory. I started subjugation of AIs, after Miriam started to move her airforce towards me (nice work on increasing belief attack bonus ). Now I am chop'n'locing Mir, and she will be gone completely within 10 years (has tons of sea bases around ). Then I will go and subjugate Morgan to secure homeland from possible AI air attacks against crawlers.
Nice work on balancing factions. None of the factions has been winning in their wars, most of them would battle forever without any major gains. Miriam sieged Aki (and commited so much atrocities against Morgan and Aki that she wouldn`t see any trade for an eon or two). Other factions also engaged in wars without any progress, except a temporary gain. I guess this is what you wanted. I stayed out of it for as long as I could, and earned by trading techs to them . Nice work

Enigma_Nova is offline Enigma_Nova
King

Nov 2003
time: 14:36
  Old Post 11-06-2004 20:29
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Then care to explain THIS?
Open it up to see a Datalinks entry for an AA under planned.

Attachment: aaplanned.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:36
  Old Post 11-06-2004 21:03 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Thanks for the feedback, I'll need to tinker with the scenario a bit more.

Inspired by Googlie, I used satellites to help out the AI for most of the game.

I altered the Build/Conquer/Discover/Explore value of most techs to try to categorize them more accurately for what they are actually used for. D:AP is usually used to conquer someone. Centauri Ecology is a must for a builder. Basically, I tuned them for more accurate blind research, on the principle that the AI's research acts the same way.

I'm glad the AIs tended to out-tech you.

What SE did you run for most of the game? I set it up so that your best choices would tend to limit your diplomacy options.

I noticed myself that the AI tended to fight all game, but it made slow, but sure progress in my simulations.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
time: 06:36
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In fact, from around 2175 I started outeching them (by trading for techs they researched). Now my lab output is enough and I am running away with tech. I ran Demo/FM/Wealth in teh begining, and now Demo/Green/Wealth/Thought Control (don`t have other Future Societies). Morgan hated me from start, I won peace with Svensgard by agreeing to tech exchanges whenever he wanted (it was also giving him advantage over other AIs, so didn`t get busted). Miriam was also my friend despite Demo, due to fact that we traded my techs (she ran for AppRel? - so I gained 3 or 4 techs from her). She surprised attacked my empath gun foil around 2200 - after that point I built some fusion choppers and locusts and started to take her bases. Svensgard declared war on me just recently, but I will leave him alone as he seems to be involved in invasion of Garland Crater.

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