06-06-2004 04:33									#1
	Hate C3C Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I hate the riduculous corruption and I hate the way Wonders are no longer worth bothering with.
Setting your most productive city producing a wonder and then 'losing' it for the rest of the game while it builds it, is not my idea of fun.
The Forbidden city, which also took most of the game to build, seemed to have no effect.
Yes, I have the latest patch.

My questions. Is there any mod/cheat to solve these problems?
I looked at Double your pleasure, but it is too complicated to install.

Is PTW any better from these points of view?

Alternatively, is there any WW2 scenario that is easy to install and actually works and doesn't take two hours to install?

I admit I am being lazy by not wading through all the forums.

Thanks.

	06-06-2004 06:59									#2
	Re: Hate C3C Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Biggles I hate the riduculous corruption

Then just change the corruption amount in the editor. It's that easy!

quote: ... and I hate the way Wonders are no longer worth bothering with. Setting your most productive city producing a wonder and then 'losing' it for the rest of the game while it builds it, is not my idea of fun.

Not sure what you mean by this....

quote: The Forbidden city, which also took most of the game to build, seemed to have no effect. Yes, I have the latest patch.

Yep, the toning down of the Forbidden Palace was a new thing introduced for Conquests - it's much more effective in Play the World. The problem was it gave TOO much of a benefit to the player, who could properly decide where best to put it for a huge benefit. Many players supported the idea of the downgrading, and it is apparently now working how the original idea was supposed to. You can always try Play the World again (included and installed for free along with the Conquests CD) for the over-powered Forbidden Palace.

This should answer a number of your questions, at least.

	06-06-2004 08:38									#3
	Re: Hate C3C Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Biggles I hate the riduculous corruption and I hate the way Wonders are no longer worth bothering with. Setting your most productive city producing a wonder and then 'losing' it for the rest of the game while it builds it, is not my idea of fun. The Forbidden city, which also took most of the game to build, seemed to have no effect. Yes, I have the latest patch.

Not sure why you even notice the corruption. I pay it little mind.

If it is taking you forever to build a wonder you are doing itin a city that is to unproductive.

Be sure you have nearly all your tiles in that city producing at least one shiled. Some need to be doing 2 shields (bonus grass or hills).

Next the city should be a core city so corruption is not an issue.

Last get the city up to size 12. Add in workers if you have to to increase the production.

Later in the game you need to have a plant of some type, coal if nothing better is available. Then a factory and you should be cranking down wonders quickly.

You can also do a prebuild for key wonders that you feel you really need to have. In a city other than the capitol, the palace works great.

	06-06-2004 09:27									#4
	Re: Hate C3C Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Biggles Alternatively, is there any WW2 scenario that is easy to install and actually works and doesn't take two hours to install?

If by WW2 you mean the WHOLE world with an accurate selection of key nations and all the modern units involved then I'd say no.

	06-06-2004 12:08									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I want a ww2 scenario with Brazil in it.

looks like I'll have to make it myself.

	06-06-2004 13:05									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

if u hate the game so much then why do u play it?

	06-06-2004 13:55									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

because he bought it.

It's only natural to play a game you paid money for. It's only natural to expect the game to be good.

Personally most of those issues are not a big sticking point to me. But they may be to someone else.

As for building wonders. I find I can build many in 50 or 60 turns. I was even able to build Copernicus and Theory of Everything and build a library, marketplace, unveristy, bank and other major buildings in that city. And all this before I reached the halfway point of the industrial age. I even have a factory built in this city now. And I think this city also have 1 or 2 more wonders in it. Although I admit this game is only on Regent. Doing this on the higher levels may prove to be impossible.

	06-06-2004 14:48									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by kermit_the_frog if u hate the game so much then why do u play it?

Asked myself the same thing everytime I pull out MOO3.

	06-06-2004 16:02									#9
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quote: I looked at Double your pleasure, but it is too complicated to install.

Why that? It's a single selfextracting file - though I strongly recommend to play the 2.02 version for ptw. This will effectively help when you want lowered corruption.

Btw, a lot of players coming straight from Civ2 hate the corruption, but after some games you'll like it.

	06-06-2004 19:21									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Dissident because he bought it. It's only natural to play a game you paid money for.

I have hundreds of games that I bought I don't play. I don't think that is a good enough reason to play a game I don't like. Life's too short for that.

	06-06-2004 22:32									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I was thinking the same thing. I have lots of games, I gave away after trying them and many more I have that I don't dislike, but do not like enough to play.

	06-06-2004 23:34									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I try not to buy games I don't like or know I won't like.

Though I have made a few "mistakes" Sim Golf. Black and White. Star Wars Rebellion.

	07-06-2004 00:22									#13
	Remove this text

Rebellion was the name that came to mind on giving them away. I gave that away three times and everyone gave it back.

It is easy to buy a game that turns out not to be to your liking. I loved Age Of Wonders, bought AoW2 and could not get into it.
I recently bought the add Shadow Magic and still could not get into it. Now I have both and have not played much.

Lots of people love the game andI should, but I don't.

I used to want to try all the RTS games that came out and bought many of them and tossed them:

Fragile Alliance, Cyberstorm, Liberation Day, Domination, Imperium Galatica I and II, Hive, Mortal Combat III.

I could go on. Others I have not even tried are like Yuri's Revenge, I loved the original and probably would like this one, but just have not gotten to it.
Warcraft III, I finally got one campaign done after all this time.

This does not count the RPG's I could not play because of the motion sickness. The same for the FPS I have bought.

Funny thing Forsaken was the only one that did not get me dizzy.
I first noticed it with Quake II. I was having a blast and all of a sudden got so dizzy.

	07-06-2004 03:12									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks people for not flaming and being constructive.

As you can see from my registration, I have been playing the Civ series of games for over thirty years, so I am ancient and not as quick as I was was.
I enjoyed Civ 1 2 and 3.
I like this type of game because it keeps my mind active....I think.
I don't enjoy Conquests as much as Civ3 but I thought I would give it a fair trial.
I am quite shocked at my first experience of it. Hence the provocative post.
I have not tackled the Editor yet. At first glance, it does not seem very intuitive to use. Can you change how thw whole game plays? Or just a single game that you invent?
Forget that. I will search for the relevent threads.

As for building Wonders. I can build them in 40/50 turns but there is now no way of speeding that up.
I hate having my most productive city occupied that way, for that long, early in the game.

	07-06-2004 03:34									#15
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Biggles As for building Wonders. I can build them in 40/50 turns but there is now no way of speeding that up. I hate having my most productive city occupied that way, for that long, early in the game.

...then perhaps you shouldn't build early game wonders.

Personally, I'm really tempted to go for the Pyrs; they can have some awesome capabilities. But really, I don't think you should risk it unless you have a good location to do it and some resources to spare. As for the other ancient wonders, they're nice, but nothing special. Consider waiting for the middle ages before building wonders.

Also, have you tried pre-builds? The palace gets quite expensive once you found enough cities, and you can assign a city to work on the palace before you ever research the tech with the target wonder, switching the build to the wonder once you discover the prerequisite tech.

You can also use another wonder for a pre-build, but that's not so secure, as you'll lose your pre-build and need to find another one if someone builds that wonder

	07-06-2004 05:58									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

the palace cost is so ungodly expensive. What's up with that. no biggie, I use it to pre-build anyways. I never move my palace.

My last game I had no hope of getting early game wonders. My first 2 cities were shelling out settlers. Expansion was more important.

But I got St. Bach's and Michelangelo cathedral thingy. And several other important wonders in that age.

I missed out on shakespear's theatre. But that one isn't very important.

	07-06-2004 06:16									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident the palace cost is so ungodly expensive. What's up with that. no biggie, I use it to pre-build anyways. I never move my palace.

The cost is expensive to prevent constant moving of the palace, which was used to "culture bomb" in older version of vanilla Civ3. (Comparing distances to the two contesting civ's palace is an important part of the culture flip formula.)

quote: Originally posted by Dissident My last game I had no hope of getting early game wonders. My first 2 cities were shelling out settlers. Expansion was more important. But I got St. Bach's and Michelangelo cathedral thingy. And several other important wonders in that age. I missed out on shakespear's theatre. But that one isn't very important.

Shakespeare's only effects one city anyway. Sistine, Bach's, and Smith's are arguably more important, with Leo's probably at the top.

	07-06-2004 07:12									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

yeah, I was running neck and neck with another civ. I was hoping getting a city over population 12 would help push up my science a bit. Esp. since I was building it in my science city (copernicus and theory of everything- err I mean Isaac's)

	07-06-2004 12:01									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If you head over to forums.civfanatics.com, there are rather a few WWII scenarios to chose from. They cover a wide range of sizes and accuracy/playability weightings, so you should be able to find something to your liking.

	07-06-2004 19:01									#20
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quote: I don't enjoy Conquests as much as Civ3 but I thought I would give it a fair trial.

I completely fail to see the difference between Civ3 and Conquests regarding Wonders. What should have changed here?
The corruption formula was altered, sure, but I *think* the majority of fans like it.


Btw, Shakespear's on Deity can win the game for you - a size 20 city almost guarantees the next crucial Wonders (like ToE and Hoover). Same goes for MoM earlier.

	07-06-2004 22:02									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Doc Tsiolkovski I completely fail to see the difference between Civ3 and Conquests regarding Wonders. What should have changed here? The corruption formula was altered, sure, but I *think* the majority of fans like it.

You have several new wonders in C3C. Two generate units. You also have a change to the research rate as the 40 turn rate is now 50 turns.

Free tech from Phio and some wonders have ben altered. IOW lots of changes impact wonders in C3C.

	07-06-2004 22:10									#22
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I think the difference between Civ3 and C3C regarding Wonders that he dislikes is that MGLs can no longer rush them.

	07-06-2004 22:42									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

the wonder rushing has always been "broke" in civ3 as far as I'm concerned.

I'm happy with only science leaders being able to rush them

Although I really don't think any wonder rushing should be allowed.

Although maybe you can have the option to rush a wonder, but it lowers all your cities population to 1. Now that's a sacrifice. Not some useless leader. Or gold, or crawlers (smac).

	08-06-2004 00:03									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

Science leaders rushing is perfectly acceptable, in my mind; MGLs can still be used for small wonders, and besides, armies are so good now I kinda wish Science Leaders could make them sometimes. Then I see Sistene Chapel: 1 and quickly forget I ever wished that.

Granted, they are kind of random, but I think that their rarity makes rushing a wonder a big thing - and a nice one. Plus, the AI is actually likely to get and use SGLs, which is good, because they seem to fritter away any MGLs they get (if they get any at all, since they only seem to go to war with me) on rush-builds that don't appear to be much help.

	08-06-2004 04:59									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Nakar Gabab Plus, the AI is actually likely to get and use SGLs, which is good, because they seem to fritter away any MGLs they get (if they get any at all, since they only seem to go to war with me) on rush-builds that don't appear to be much help.

Too true. Someone on here posted once about watching an AI use a MGL (don't remember if it was PTW or C3C) to rush a spearman.

	08-06-2004 06:52									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I try not to buy games I don't like or know I won't like. Though I have made a few "mistakes" Sim Golf. Black and White. Star Wars Rebellion.

Call me crazy but I liked Rebellion.
(I guess it was that combination of character interaction and strategic combat)

	08-06-2004 09:53									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Call me crazy but I liked Rebellion. (I guess it was that combination of character interaction and strategic combat)

crazy

	10-06-2004 08:12									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Biggles As you can see from my registration, I have been playing the Civ series of games for over thirty years

How? IIRC, Sid and Bruce didn't make it till 1991. (The old Hartland Trefoil and Avalon Hill board games did come out a lot earlier (1980), but, barring a time machine, I don't get 30).

	10-06-2004 11:05									#29
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I don't think computers existed back then

	10-06-2004 11:17									#30
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm How? IIRC, Sid and Bruce didn't make it till 1991. (The old Hartland Trefoil and Avalon Hill board games did come out a lot earlier (1980), but, barring a time machine, I don't get 30).

It's a joke, albeit a strange one. Notice that his registration date is on New Years 1970. For some reason, that is the date the software assigns to people whose registration date it doesn't know. (Some people registered before February 1998, IIRC, which was before the forum kept track of registration dates.)