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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:12
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I'm trying to set upi the Final round in accordance with the 2 primary guidelines stated at the beginning of the Tourney: Highest scores compete, and players should not play the same opponents sequentially.
I find I cannot apply both to the last round. Worse, players are rather well spread out globally, which led to difficulties in the previous round initial groupings. What to do...?
Every way I look at groupings, I either get the same basic ones as round 3 or I get games on 3 continents.
The scoring system has become a problem as well. I erred in arranging the MP scoring for 1st, 2nd, etc to be so close. As such, it encourages either extremely conservative play (to protect a score) or desperate play (as the only possibility of changing overall position).
First, are any of the Tourney players reasonably able to play with a group on another continent? That would help greatly (and Markus, which one *are* you on, anyway).
Second, I propose the following change for the Final round. If 3-player games, points of 4, 2, 0; if 4-player games, points of 6, 4, 2, 0.
Thoughts?
Meanwhile, I'll be making maps. The Final round will be on normal (medium) map, archipelagos, roving bands. Age and climate are irrelevent, since I will be constructing them from scratch.
Lastly, I have the following players still active. If I have removed someone in error, or have left some one in who has withdrawn, please let me know.
NAPPY 12
MARKUS 11
ARITEA 10
MARK E 8
SMARTFART 8
CARNIDE 7
DEITY 6
FINBAR 3
CAPTVK 2
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markusf
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The problem is all the highscoring players are in NA PST time or PST + 1, that makes it nearly impossible to play with Europe or Australia.
besides both me and arii want to beat up on nappy for that fluke of a win...
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Nap Bonaparte
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Newport Beach, California
May 2000
time: 05:12
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My name keeps popping up on this thread so perhaps it is time for me to respond. Cavebear-thanx for all your efforts in organizing this tournament and constructing the maps. I am concerned, however, about the prospect of continuing this tournament on into the 4th round. The tournament has now stretched from April to August and only 9 of the original 16 players remain. The 3rd round alone went from May to August and during that time many excellent players had to drop out or concede due to time limitations including Jedi, Crusty,Curumbor,and Deity. In fact, the 3rd round went on so long that I passed my 1 year Apolyton anniversary and had to register under a new name(and become a settler again). The idea behind the MP 3rd round was great....basically all players were on their own trying for a win. However, in a 4th round MP game, the players will gang up on whoever is the points leader in their particular game (ie a 2 on 1 duel)rendering the results of the 4th round relatively meaningless when compared to the 3rd round. To give you an example, assume Markus, Arii and myself play a 4th round game. As stated several times in this thread, Markus and Arii want to beat on me to make up for our "fluke of a game".With the new scoring system you propose, whoever wins between them finishes 1st and the runnerup would finish 2nd overall(with only 2 wins) and everyone else would be mathematically eliminated from the top 2 positions even though potentially 3 other players could have 3 wins. I agree with Mark that scoring should be based on wins with points used as a tie-breaker. I further agree with Mark that the next round should be a duel(or maybe even 2 rounds) as I would rather get whupped 1 on 1 than the forgone conclusion of 2 on 1. If you do decide to make the 4th round MP, I have a few suggestions. First, the scoring system in rounds 3 and 4 should be the same. Second, the points leaders should be dispersed into 3 different games(then EVERYONE can gang up on the leaders). Perhaps you can have the points leaders host the game(the host tech advantage might help equal things out). As for myself, I would be willing to play the Aussies.....my best times for playing Civ are after 6:30 pm PDT on Mon.,Tues, Wed. and that seems to fit with Finbar's schedule. The main reason I entered this tournament was the opportunity to play people I had never faced before. Oh .....if my opponents from the 3rd round think that our game was a fluke, I'd like to remind them that I have our rematch from June stored on my hard drive and am willing to resume when they are ready....
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arii
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St-Louis MO USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Nappy: 2 civ conspiring against the top civ will always happen in MP. To a certain extent you and markus were conspiring against me since I was starting to build a good lead in that tourney game.
Markus is just teasing you, and the unfinished game is the 3d game and not the rematch. Sorry to not have been able to continue this game. We have a regular game on tues night which makes it difficult with your monday-wed only playing time.
I feel that large games are just too hard to finish and the outcome is often decided by the alliances and treachery rather than the skill of the individual player.
I'm perfectly happy with the duels, it's fast, exiting, a lot easier to shedule.
Arii
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:12
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Thank you everyone for the excellent and thoughtful comments! I've learned quite a lot about multiple-player scheduling and the difficulties that time zones can create. It is almost cruel that the 3 major Civ-playing centers (US, Oz, and W Europe) are so nearly equidistant!
My guideline of "nearest-scores play, and simultaneously, no duplications" has taken a contorted journey in this tourney. Still, the prime rule is that variety of opponents is most important. Several people have pointed out that they considered that a major attraction of this tourney, and I thank them for pointing that out. I also thank the players who have inticated some compatibility with other time zones (as well as those who have indicated difficulties in that).
So, I propose the following matches:
Game A
Nappy ----- GMT -8
Deity ----- GMT +10
Carnide --- GMT +0
Game B
Aritea ---- GMT -6
SmartFart - GMT +1
CapTVK ---- GMT +1
Game C
Markus ---- GMT -8
Mark E ---- GMT -5
Finbar ---- GMT +10
Please look at the time zones carefully, and consider that some of the players in different ones have indicated that some apparently odd times might well suit their individual schedules. Also, please remember that crossing the Date Line makes some zones seem less compatible than they really are.
The 3 highest-scoring players have had their match, and the results are in for this tourney. There will be other opportunities for rematches in the future. The proposed groupings offer different opponents in potentially workable combinations, divide the 3 leaders into separate games, and reduce the ability of close competitors to arrange in-game alliances based on current standings.
The scoring will remain as it was for Round 3. I shouldn't have suggested a change in an ongoing tourney.
In considering the workability of the proposed groupings, please discuss possible playing times with an open mind. This is the last round, and if we make it through this, we will all have managed to do something that I don't think has been accomplished before.
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Nap Bonaparte
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Newport Beach, California
May 2000
time: 05:12
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Cavebear....groupings and settings sound fine. Carnide sounds as if he is very flexible timewise....but I havent seen a post from Deity in a while. I'll volunteer to host our match. Thanx again for all your efforts!
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Nappy, I spoke to carnide...
the most sensible time would be your Fri night, which is carnide's Sat morning and my Sat afternoon.
Is this OK? Say, 2100 USA Nappy time? Is this too early carnide?
------------------
*THE DEITY*
#8388924
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Nap Bonaparte
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Newport Beach, California
May 2000
time: 05:12
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Deity.....9 pm PDT Friday is fine......I can probably stay up for at least 4-5 hours. Im also available Mon evening after 7pm. Who wants to host?
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arii
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St-Louis MO USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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capTV smartfart I can play tonight and probably tomorrow night and friday night. I am pretty flexible this week. I will check icq regularly tonight to see if you guys are online.
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:12
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I tested the map I sent Markus. Trying the Americans, I got only 3 non-bonus-tech starts in 20 tries. However, with the Egyptians, I got 5 for 5 non-bonus-tech starts. I guess it depends on luck.
I say "luck" because I ran a test on a different map trying all the 1st-column civs and got wildly ranging results. For general interest, my results for host-techs were:
Rom 3, 7, 3
Bab 6, 6, 6
Ger 6, 3, 3
Egy 3, 3, 6
Grk 6, 6, 3
Ind 8, 3, 6
Curious about the 2 civs that gave 2 of 3 clean starts, I ran another series:
Ger 3, 6, 6, 3, 3
Egy 6, 3, 3, 3, 3
Starting position seems to have little to do with the techs given; the same spot and resources give a variety of techs on different tries.
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markusf
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cavebear i had the same number of starting techs as long as the other players picked the same starting positions. If you get techs it means the other players are close to you.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:12.
Apolyton Time is 00:12. |
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21-08-2000 09:57
is that as constructed it is almost mathematically impossible for someone to win the tourney after a loss in a duel. No Matter Who they beat after that loss. Whereas someone who loses in a MP game (but in neither duel) can easily still win. Obviously if Nappy can win every game he plays against a variey of opponents there is no real issue, at least within the context of a 4-game tourney...
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