06-06-2004 10:43									#1
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We currently have only one Caravan (salt), which is from Apolytonia and is situated south of Caralis (exploring).

By the city Advisor window the nearest city to this caravan is Caralis, indicating it will be a while before it gets to another city to establish a trade route going in the direction it is currently headed.

So what do we do with it?
- continue exploring our unknown continent?
- return the caravan to Caralis to be transported by boat to the known Egyptian colonies?
- return the caravan to Caralis to be transported by boat into the great unknown?
- return the caravan to Apolytonia in order to be used to help produce a wonder?
- some other option I have not considered (written below and explained)

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Other Trade notes of interest:
The two discovered Egyptian colonies demand:
Giza - Dye, Wine, Silk
Kildeer - Copper, Dye, Coal

Our 4 cities supply:
Apolytonia - (salt), (beads), and Gold, no one we currently know of demands Gold

Utica - Beads, Wine, Wool

Malaca - Beads, Silk, Salt

Caralis - Beads, Salt, Wool

Obviously my recommendation is that if we decide to build Caravans in our Colonies (see City Planner poll for further information) that we should choose Wine from Utica to send to Giza and Silk from Malaca to send to Giza. If Caralis or Apolytonia construct caravans, I leave it to the Consuls discretion as to what we should choose, but if you have any advice for him or I, please post it below

	06-06-2004 18:56									#2
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I recommend sending the salt to the west to find the Celts.

At this stage of the game, I have never seen salt demanded. All effort should go toward rushing vans from Apolytonia, when there is a supply, even if undemanded. OTOH, making vans in dirthole cities to be delivered on the same land mass does not hold much prospectr. We need to open the map the best way we can, by sailing toward hidden WOW cities and hoping for the best. As long as it is offshore and to an AI, we will get some benifit from trade.

But first we need more cities. If the colonies build vans now, we will languish til game's end.

Monk

	06-06-2004 22:31									#3
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I think that our greatest need of the Salt Caravan is located good spots for new cities. It doesn't explore quickly, but it is the only thing we have in the area (and not as likely to be attacked as most units would be).

	07-06-2004 00:17									#4
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It'll be a terrible waste of 50shield investment if it does get smacked, especially considering there is a real explorer about to disembark.

If the van IS used for land exploration, what should the Caralis boat do?? Assuming it gets rehomed there, that is??

Monk

	07-06-2004 01:23									#5
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If the Salt Caravan explores west (where there does not seem to be AI civ exploration based on the huts that have been found) the Explorer can check out the terrain south and east of Utica.

Do you think that Caralis can get along with having the Caravel homed to it? I'm not sure; it is a rather small city.

	07-06-2004 05:50									#6
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear If the Salt Caravan explores west (where there does not seem to be AI civ exploration based on the huts that have been found) the Explorer can check out the terrain south and east of Utica. Do you think that Caralis can get along with having the Caravel homed to it? I'm not sure; it is a rather small city.

Change the workers from 4f/2s to 2f/4s. It is already size 2 and no longer needs to push food. With that, yes, Caralis can support the boat.

Monk

	07-06-2004 07:35									#7
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I didn't mention the main reason for spreading the unit support away from Apolytonia, celebration potential. Eventually we will get Sanitation and in the meantime we may pop out a settler or three from Apolytonia. With redfaces from too many units afield, no amount of Lux will allow Apol. to celebrate and grow again.

To me, this is reason enough to put a bit of pressure on the colony cities.

Monk

	07-06-2004 23:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Change the workers from 4f/2s to 2f/4s. It is already size 2 and no longer needs to push food. With that, yes, Caralis can support the boat.

Well, we're building a Settler there. If we make this change, then the Settler will be built before the population increases. That would leave us at 0 food and a size 1 city.

	08-06-2004 05:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Well, we're building a Settler there. If we make this change, then the Settler will be built before the population increases. That would leave us at 0 food and a size 1 city.

Shift to 2f/4shields AND rehome the boat to Caralis. The settler will be ready in 14 turns, just after the turn the city grows to size 3. The settler will march out and quickly build another city nearby, so if there is a zero food situation, it won't pertain for long.

Monk

	08-06-2004 05:57									#10
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quote: vans in dirthole cities to be delivered on the same land mass does not hold much prospectr.

1 extra trade/turn adds up.

	08-06-2004 07:44									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi 1 extra trade/turn adds up.

Exactly!! The 1 extra arrow/turn (minimum) from the city square of a new city adds up and continues to deliver new build orders, making settlers a much better prospect, at this stage of the game, than sending out vans from tiny colony cities.

Monk

	09-06-2004 04:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Shift to 2f/4shields AND rehome the boat to Caralis. The settler will be ready in 14 turns, just after the turn the city grows to size 3. The settler will march out and quickly build another city nearby, so if there is a zero food situation, it won't pertain for long.

Right. I wasn't accounting for the shield the Caravel will use up. OK.

	09-06-2004 08:13									#13
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A tied poll with a day to go....I know the trade offs are many, but I hope that someone else votes...you wouldn't want your Minister of Trade deciding for you would you?

(by the way, to give you advanced preview of what my suggestion will be for our consul if the vote is tied...I voted for the Caravan to return to Caralis and be transported to Egypt to establish a trade route).

* Sparrowhawk

	09-06-2004 10:19									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk ...you wouldn't want your Minister of Trade deciding for you would you?

Yes I would

	09-06-2004 17:37									#15
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Well, this is odd... another poll I missed due to my trip away. I would vote for continuing towards the West but for one thing - how are we sure there is a good large civ anywhere clsoe by? Unless someone is reasonably certain of this through some way (60% or greater certainty, I guess), then I suggest we go back and set up with Egypt. At least we know where they are and it gets us the trade quickly, and is close to home too!

So to the Chief Scientician, my vote is to Egypt unless someone KNOWS we are going to hit a civ in the West.

	09-06-2004 20:06									#16
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Anyone who will use the techniques (blackclicking and "Find City" for WOW cities) that are available to them WILL know to a certainty that:
A) there is a water passage to the West, and
B) the Celt homeland lies to the West

I have described these techniques elsewhere, but if more explanation is needed, please ask. It is very easy.

The trip West to Celtland looks to be about 12-13 turns. While this is longer than the trip to Egypt, a Celt delivery has a great potential to be much more lucrative. They have two cities size 12-13 in Top 5 Cities, and those are just the ones with Wonders. The Celts are Neutral and may be willing to ally with us. This would make them a great trading partner as our camels could wander around finding new cities/trade opportunities for us.

Monk

	09-06-2004 20:33									#17
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Well... as long as we are going to build another Caravel in the intervening 25+ turns then going West sounds fine. Remember that with 12-13 turns to get to the Celts, it will be a long time (25+ turns) before that Caravel will be able to do anything else useful. In that time we will have more settlers to settle, need to explore more, and have more Caravans to transport at the same time. It would have to be a very large payoff indeed to cut our transport fleet down for that amount of time.

	09-06-2004 20:50									#18
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Yes, that is the downside. But, think of this...

--the caravel will be exploring, in both directions, btw

--one of the colony cities, at least, needs to build a boat anyway

--there is no need for Apolytonia to make more settlers. As of next turn there will be 3 settlers in the colony--3 new cities. The colony can build its own settler/cities now. The Cap can build camels where suppy slots are open and then we can think about a Bank there or if we want to accumulate vans for a WOW, Ike's College for instance.

I just think it is time to start openning up the map for future settlement, trade, and eventual conquest.

Monk

	11-06-2004 01:53									#19
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quote: making settlers a much better prospect, at this stage of the game, than sending out vans from tiny colony cities.

An angle I did not anticipate.

	11-06-2004 02:18									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi An angle I did not anticipate.

Hey!! An arrow is an arrow is an arrow. [shurgs]

Monk