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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:36
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Things on my home front haven;t been too good the last several weeks. I'm doing my best, to balance my home life and this game.
And so, now, I've also been doing a lot more than I'm really supposed to. I'm in Chatrooms, on 3 different servers, almost 24/7. Talking to CFC and CGN about different things relating to this game. It's a lot to do, besides what I normally do...
Now, we have this taunt from GCA over our gifting of Remembrance to CGN, to help them to stay in the game.
see this over at UN
quote:
[20:31] [miccofl> they also emailed it yesterday from an address that bounced the auto-responer
[20:31] [miccofl> it went out to the whole team
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Me, I would be rightously angry and want to shove that somewhere, where the sun doesn;t shine.... But it would seem that CGN is giving up......
And so, what do we do about it?? NOTHING!!, Zilch, Nodda, ect. I asked people who had access to CGN's Embassy to say some more to CGN, to help get them tinking about the future and not the present. To get them to look forward at the demise of GWT/GCA and not the ashes of their cities, now. To help boister their Moral, because they could still be involved in the game. I did it via a chat with Micco, which he has posted in their Private forum.
Does any one do that?? No
And so, GCA sends that taunt and CGN is pushed to the breaking point and will likely not go on.
And I start asking myself, "WHY should I continue, too??", if I'm the only one really trying to do things?? Why should I beat my head out against my computer to get the most from all of this?? Why should I put discord into my home life, over a freaking game?? Why should I continue to care??
Why, Why, WHY???
Maybe, because I DO care. Maybe, because I want to extract justice from GCA and GWT for their actions. Maybe because I want to show them that WE WILL be the supreame power on the planet, dispite all of their cheating.
But, I can;t do it alone. And it has been kind of lonely, recently, or so it would seem....
But I'm getting to the point of losing my own will to go on, because of everything (including personal RL things), too,
E_T
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:36
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I understand you, and the truth is that part of the blame is to rest on the rest of the team's less-than-stellar participation as of late (me included).
The FAM is non-existant if con isn't around.
Me, I'd love to do the diplomacy but you are a witness of my IRC woes during the last month which disconnect me every few minutes of idleness, considering that I have never been able to auto-connect to other servers, I have no stomach to keep reconnecting all my servers every 5 minutes.
Now we have an AWOL consul too...
As for GCA, if it pisses you off, just don't listen to them. They are a bunch of bratty a s s holes with no clue of what good sportsmanship is, fortunately they have pretty much dug their own grave in future demo games because of their less than stellar reputation in this one.
Maybe one day they'll grow up, but I doubt it.
In conclusion, I understand you 100% and I hope that all the rest of us can chip in a bit more of our time to ease your allready rather overwhelming burden in this game.
Last edited by Master Zen on 07-06-2004 at 11:40
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ZargonX
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Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:36
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I think the problem is that, because of crap like this, a lot of people have lost interest in this game. I know I have. Why should I invest myself in this game, wherein the lines have been drawn long ago, and it's now just two sides being sh**ty to each other when there are several other more interesting, friendly demogames going on? Why have a full FAM when negotiating with 2 of the teams is utterly pointless?
Perhaps if the D-Day operation succeeds, some people will have their attention rekindled. Of course, if the invasion fails on account of "luck" or on account of them waiting, prepared for it because they somehow knew it was coming (I am not implying this will happen, I'm just saying it would fit the trend of this game  ), I think this demogame will have lost the last shreds of dignity it had.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:36
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It should be noted that I was around when E_T freaked out because miccofl was p*ssed off after reading GCA's rude post. E_T spent quite a bit of time trying to talk miccofl out of their current plan, which appears to be fighting to the death and then dieing.
E_T then begged me to go talk to miccofl, which I declined.
At some point after that, this thread was started.
While it is clear that having CGN survive, even as just one city, is a great benefit to us. I know that we've "loaned" them gold which we'll likely never get back. I know that if they fall, it's 2 on 2, and we lose all of our advantages, including the free tech CGN would have netted us at the next age.
But I also know what it's like to continue "playing" a game that you have no hope of winning, nor play any signifigant role in. You manage a couple cities and hit end turn. It's not something that I'd wish on anyone, nor something that I can ask someone to do.
If they are hellbent on revenge and want to survive just to stick it to GCA, then we'd be happy to have them, but it's very clear from how miccofl is talking that they just want this game OVER. They have lost their patience and tolerance. It's worn them down to the point where they'd rather have nothing to do with it. So much so that they really don't seem to care who wins either.
I suppose we could chat it up with them about how we have plans to return them to their homeland and how they can get revenge on GWT and GCA and how we all can triumph over them, but we would need them to first calm down about the fruitbasket post and last night definately wasn't the night to do so. However, I DO NOT think we should be pushy about it. I don't think we should try to manipulate their decision, nor do I think we should keep sending people to talk to them until they do what we want.
You cannot force someone to do what you want. That's not our style either. If they warm up to the idea a bit (or at least calm down), we can bring it up again, but I don't approve of E_T's methods of arguing with them to do what we want, nor the urgency and insistancy that was demonstrated last night, when last night was clearly the wrong time to handle it.
--Togas
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:36
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Well, for one thing, they are going to be getting 3 cities, not just the one.
They DID get 3 galleys across the ocean, and they currently are near the CFC island. They also have one more that might make it across.
So, 3 galleys, upgraded to Gallions, can carry 12 units, UU Units, at that. And if that last Galley makes it across, or hangs out with 2 muskets on it, that will be 3 more units that can participate in the upcoming Invasion. Maybe 2 Rifles, to Protect the UU's, until they are ready to attack??
The thing is, compaired to the PTWDG, this game WILL be entirely different. Togas, it's Apples and Oranges, you really can;t compair the 2 of them.
E_T
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CiverDan
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I know I have not been posting as much, this is a combination of my involvement is the CISDG, as well as an increased work schedule. I have gotten a bit tired of the whole CGA/GWT stuff too. If GCN wants to give up, let them. It's THEIR team. not ours. True we are allied with them, but it is ultimately their decision.
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Adrian Hon
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Living in Perplex City
Nov 2001
time: 05:36
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While I think it would be a great shame to stop now considering all the incredible and promising plans we have for the future, I understand the toll that this game is putting on our ministers and consuls here, especially with the ill-feeling the game has had for some time now. I'm sure that there are many other lurkers like me who enjoy reading the posts and reports here every day but sadly fail to show their appreciation (which I am doing belatedly here).
If CGN wish to quit and there is no-one there who wants to carry on, then there is little we can do. They probably feel that it is better for them to die in dignity than to be rescued and be dependent on some other civilization, even if they did make the mistakes that lead to their defeat. IMO, this is a far more graceful and noble than anything GCA did.
And no matter what else happens in the game, Apolyton will always be the team who started in an abysmal position yet battled against the odds to become one of the top two powers through a combination of diplomacy, superb domestic planning and inspired military leadership. We still may yet win this game, but even if we do not then at least we can hold our heads up high and say that we played our best game, and it was skill - not luck - that brought us our successes.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFree
Yes, it's their team. But, we helped them with the idea in mind that if they would do everything in their power to help us/repay us. If that means staying in the game as a vassal then so be it. They accepted the help knowing full well what the outcome could be and they still vouched to repay us. I think it would be the honorable thing to do to stay around and help Apolyton win this damn game! |
I don't think that's going to mean much to them if they're giving up. This is beyond in-game agreements.
Have we confirmed with miccofl that there is not a single one of them interested in continuing on to help Poly-CFC against GWT? I remember they were calling a vote about staying in the game, but IMHO, they should only give up if there isn't anyone among them who wants to continue, not if the majority of the team doesn't want to continue.
If the whole team is too demoralized to continue, then I agree with Togas, Adrian Hon, et al, that there's nothing we can do. It'll be a dent in our chances, but there's nothing we can do about it.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
Well, for one thing, they are going to be getting 3 cities, not just the one.
... (etc, etc) ...
The thing is, compaired to the PTWDG, this game WILL be entirely different. Togas, it's Apples and Oranges, you really can;t compair the 2 of them.
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1) I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me that they'd be helpful to us because I already know that. We all know that. That's beyond question.
2)Yeah, they're entirely different, just the exact same result. They can either go out fighting and end their misery or they can continue on as a small part of a larger alliance and someone else's vassel ... maybe contribute a few forces. Maybe feel a little useful. Maybe even contribute gold and workers or whatnot. I've been there. There's many others on this team who've also been there. It sucks and we all know it. And we're selfish jerks for trying to get them to do it.
But getting mad at me because I'm not going to try to force them to do what they don't want is pretty pointless. As is justifying what you wish they'd do.
--Togas
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:36
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Wow, BF, that was a class post, mate! 
This thread is full of posts I have to agree with. 
First: E_T, you've got my utmost respect for how much you are carrying on your shoulders - and trust me, I do know what it takes to run things the way you do... If this ill-fated game ever sees a victorious end, you'll be rightfully able to claim it for yourself in large part. I very well understand your feelings - been there myself... I got to a point where this more or less virtual civ life was threatening to take over my real life and I had to slow down a lot, struggling to find a balance. I eventually found it in managing Lego only, demoting myself to a mere lurker in other games, this one included.
The reason for picking PtWDG over this one lies mostly in what ZargonX posted - that game is way more "fun" and friendly. Through all the heated arguments in the public forum, PtWDG has evolved into a pretty class event, I'd say, with opponents respecting each other. Not this one... ever since Lucky admitting his "magic", my hopes in fairness of this game dropped to zero. I see very little friendship and sportsmanship between the teams... there is only the will/desire to win left.
To use BF's parallel... after having a boxer shot down in the ring, I agree it's necessary to bring a gun next time. Just that I will rather choose to never go into the ring again, as I am not interested in shooting boxers with a gun, but in boxing with them...
Third, I have to agree with most of what Togas posted, too - in the only individual PBEM game of mine, I got to a point where I, after a pretty heroic struggle (hope I am not exaggerating here), was left with no power, no hope of winning or at least having my revenge, and no desire to continue playing (and yes, I sort of owed a lot to a great ally that did his best to help me out, suffering huge losses consequently) - I was glad my last settler drowned at sea. One needs to have a goal to wish to remain in a game. If CGN has a goal - be it revenge, gratefulness or anything else - they will remain in the game and help us fight/win. If they no longer see any goals worth pursuing, we should let them go. I don't think their survival is a key to our victory in this game - it would be a nice extra, but if we don't get that extra... oh, well.
To answer your thread-title question, E_T... I asked myself the same one many times in Lego - months ago when things were almost too much to bear. I eventually realized I had my own personal reason to not give up - yes, it was not much fun, it was a lot of stress... but I wanted to see some kind of a result coming out of all those hours spent over the saves, over the plans, over the spreadsheets. I realized I was not doing that "for the team"... or not only for the team. I was doing that because of my own personal desire to see a result coming out of my lengthy effort, no matter if I get some help from others or not, no matter if I have to even fight internally to have it my way. If you feel that way about this game, then it's only about your civ life and your real life - it's up to you to decide to what extent your civ life is part of your real life and whether you are going to feel better stepping down, risking noone would pick the banner up... or carrying on, making sure your hard work so far wouldn't be in vain.
So - to BigFree for his fine post at the UN. I had the same thought yesterday but hadn't found a suitable way of putting it in public.
And -  to E_T. If it's of any consolation, E_T, running things single-handedly has an advantage... it's much easier to coordinate yourself with yourself than with others. Learned that in Lego. 
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Aidun
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The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
time: 06:36
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I was ambassador for GWT, but since there is never something to discuss with them, I'm quite inactive though not lurking.
My first exams are but over now and I could try to get a little more involved. If there is any office, for instance in diplomacy...
Now about E_T...
I sometimes have critique on E_T such as with the Parthemunde thing, but I value E_T higher than everyone else here.
You can have a military genius, you can have a building strategist, they are both useless without someone providing them the nessecary information, and that is E_T.
E_T is so to say the beating heart of Apolyton, in every way.
Unfortunately E_T is also modest. He didn't want to have a city named after him, and when he finally agreed, it should not be named after him, but after the computer program he uses for all the work he does. As if that deserves the honour!
No instead we should build a wonder for him, but that is impossible in the game. And erecting a statue for E_T on Apolyton is very difficult, and threads attract only temporary attention.
Therefore E_T, when this game is over and the forum covered with dust, nobody will know what role you played in it, safe for us, who witnessed it. You shall therefore never get a statue from us, nor a wonder, perhaps a city in this temporary game. But instead you have built something, a memory in everyone's mind that is never forgotten. And perhaps we meet once and you tell me that you then called yourself E_T and I say: "Hey E_T! Weren't you the guy who always provided us with the spreadsheets?" And then I hope, you see, for one moment, a glimpse of your statue.
We're proud E_T, that we have you in our team, but we seldomly say it.
Aidun
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07-06-2004 06:47
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