08-06-2004 22:48									#1
	Artillery Effects Put an end to popups!

In my most recent C3C version 1.15 game, I have noticed that Artillery bombardment on cities seems to be borne by the defending troops. I just bombarded size 13 Athens with 30 something Artillery reducing 9 vet Infantry and 1 conscript infantry to 1 hp left each and zero repeat zero population or building damage.

This is significantly different than my experiences with ptw and original civ3.

So was this a fluke, or has there been a design change?

	08-06-2004 23:04									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Design change. Arty now hits walls first, then units, then other stuff. Practically the opposite of CivIII/PTW.

The walls first thing can be annoying when your opponent has the Great Wall (which now provides free city walls to all towns), because it results in a bug whereby your arty shots will never hurt units, but rather will destroy buildings and even wonders (at least it SAYS you're breaking wonders, but I'm not sure that it actually takes).

-Arrian

	09-06-2004 00:09									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Actually, you (or at least I) sometimes hit units when you bombard the towns of an opponent that's got the GW. Bring along 6 times as many catapults as usual, and I have about the same success.

	09-06-2004 00:41									#4
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Easier solution: build the GW

	09-06-2004 02:09									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Easier solution: build the GW

Pffft. I'd rather build the 6x bombardment force. They'll be more useful longer.

	09-06-2004 18:06									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Or just go after the GW city first, take it out, and mop up the rest.

-Arrian

	09-06-2004 18:23									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Or don't attack them until you have cavs or tanks.

Pick on someone easier.

	10-06-2004 01:55									#8
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That's usually good suggestions, but sometimes there's this big neighbouring AI who built the GW in it's most inaccessible city, and just won't stop declaring war on you. Then you really hate that bug.

	10-06-2004 02:02									#9
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quote: That's usually good suggestions, but sometimes there's this big neighbouring AI who built the GW in it's most inaccessible city, and just won't stop declaring war on you. Then you really hate that bug.

No, I sign everyone else on the continent up against that civ, and I wage a defensive war: I steam on ahead, the AIs' slaughter each other. I can use the boost to the rep to trade more easily/more profitably.

I might aim at taking a few border cities, but usually my wars are with tanks and an army every 4 turns (eventually). Even OCP does not save a civ then.

	10-06-2004 15:06									#10
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Last time I tried that, the AI in question ate the surrounding AIs alive.

Last edited by Last Conformist on 11-06-2004 at 20:50

	16-06-2004 02:35									#11
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Oops. Gotta go back to the 'fight your way to his GW city' tactic then. You need armies of course, you may also want to lay siege to his cities whenever you get the change. Both to stop reinforcements from arriving and to kill said troops out in the open.

	16-06-2004 14:32									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I still prefer the good old days of bombarding enemy cities down from size 20 to size 6, before capturing.

	21-06-2004 19:02									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, I was gonna post and ask if its worth building siege units, me, i prefer simply B!@Tc[-]-$l@pp!ng them than bombarding them..so are artillery that more useful than say tanks?

Just curious as i am learning the major differences between this wonderful game and my favorite which is no under more scrutiny (Call To Power) from me than before.

I am very impressed by the AI in CIVIII whereas Call To Power's ai doesnt even come close!

So..Yes for artillery investments or No they are a waste of time and resources?

Peace

Gramps

	21-06-2004 20:03									#14
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Artillery are most definately worth the effort. The combination of standoff bombardment, (range of 2) high bonbardment value (12) and high rate of fire (2) make them indespensible when trying to extract infantry from the large cities the AI typically has at this point in the game. But don't bother if you plan on only a few Artillery. Build scores of them! You absolutely must have enough of them to take hps off of each quality defender, or you gain nothing.

starting with just captured city, my blitz strategy consists of:
.)position an attack settler with remaining move at desired new position within captured city cultural border
.)position engineering corps (workers) in the captured city tile with movement remaining adequate to road immediate
.)relocate any attackers from captured city that have movement to attack settler location.
.)disband the old city getting rid of the resistance.
.)attack settler founds the new city to push the border
.)positioned engineering corps road old abandoned city tile
.)additional engineering corps move up to rail as required
.)massed Artillery move up pinging the defenders in the next city to redline
.)available attack units Tank Army, Cav Army, FS Tank, FS Cav depending on defender capture the city. Try to use FS units for promotion purposes and maybe even an MGL.
.)outmoded attackers spread out to collect new recruits for engineering corps
.)infantry move in to defend the new city and the massed Artillery that have shot their load.

rinse, repeat within the same turn till you run out of one of the combined arms components. On Emperor and below I usually run out of attack settlers first, cause I just hate to make settlers from cities with enough spt to make a Tank in 2. On Demigod I usually run out of Artillery, or possibly attackers. On Deity, be happy to take one city per turn and up the infantry content. On Sid, one city per turn is unlikely. Infantry Armies may be required to hold off the hordes, as well as suicide explorers to pillage a kill zone infront of the new city.

Whatever component is limiting, the build orders for the next turn are adjusted to suit.

Last edited by roadcage on 21-06-2004 at 20:22

	21-06-2004 20:31									#15
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The problem presented by C3C is that the new governments allow for more unit support. If a player waits to attack, then "artillery" might be needed to help reduce the defenders. Trying to blitz a well established civ that is using fascism is difficult w/ out artillery or bombers. This may be a reason for artillery's ability ro target defenders after walls. Rambling thoughts.

	22-06-2004 01:05									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

ok thanks!

Again, making the transition from Call To Power to CIVIIIConquests has been "an adjustment" to say the least!

I do appreciate the input and it is a very exciting game!

Peace

Gramps